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Feedback/Modification - Imps are too busy - Printable Version

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Imps are too busy - Xaos - 19-06-2018

It seems like imps in this game have just way too much to do.  This makes jobs take too long, production break down, and an eventual requirement for mass quantities of imps just to keep up.

It would be better to have 3 types of worker units:

1. Digger - does all digging, wall breaking, wall reinforcing, and rock block building.  

2. Transporter - brings items from one place to another.  

3. Architect - Builds rooms, room items, traps, devices, ladders, roads, bridges.

This would allow for less job switching and running all over the map and waiting for them to run across the map so they can get to the next job.
Just a thought.

Idea for looks for digger and architect:

Delver:

[Image: DELVER.jpg]

Kobold:

[Image: kobold1.jpg]


RE: Imps are too busy - Sebt - 19-06-2018

Hmm, what could we do in situation when we have no Diggers or/and Transporters or/and Architects at our disposal?
We can place rooms, but they couldn't be built if we have no Architects or dig a single tile without Delvers - when you're at losing your Imps there are always some at your disposal to do anything you want them to. Also we sometimes need to make greater digging, sometimes grater rooms at the beginning, but later Dwelvers and Architects could have no use too us for a very long time.

BUT, I agree that Imps are taking too much jobs for themselves, however I would rather see one working class to manage and divide some of these jobs on already existing "battle creatures" instead - for example all rooms-related jobs could have only be done by creatures, i.e. farming by Orcs (if they want a beer they need to work for that), than Imps could do room jobs (still at lowered efficiency) only if there are no creatures that could for example bake a bread.

I also would like to see item transportation system much shorter - for example fetching water could be done by creatures that are actually working in room that uses water to make items. Moreover, Fishman could deliver fish - straight from a fish pond - to a room where the fish is later processed, and when Fishman catches some fish the game calculates to which room that fish should be delivered by that Fishman. Impanzees could just take roasted mice or bread from a kitchen - well... isn't that working like that in reality?

Of course we can have a Fishman and access to fish source, but not have any room in which we could process the fish, than Fishman can just take caught fish to nearest Storage Room (that is allowed to store fish). As in this thread I see no need to have Storages Room for other reason than storing items far away from dungeon. Also "blue room flags" are replaced by in-room storage I called "Reception" - so all raw materials could be delivered straight from excavation area / fish pond / mice trap to a room that needs them.


RE: Imps are too busy - Xaos - 19-06-2018

Quote:Hmm, what could we do in situation when we have no Diggers or/and Transporters or/and Architects at our disposal?

I would assume the same thing would happen as when you lose imps now. The Dark Mother would spawn more.


RE: Imps are too busy - Sebt - 20-06-2018

Exactly, than let's talk about their spawn rate. Let's assume they have all the same spawn rate. If I had 3 Imps free I could do excavations or build a room + every other task, where at the same time I would have 9 workers (3 x 3) and when I would like to do only excavations I would have 6 free workers that have nothing to do which is not the case of Imps. Of course I could do excavations + build rooms, so it would seem better to have more unit classes if their have all the same spawn rate like Imps now. That's + 1 for idea of splitting workers. Let's than investigate more things.

I haven't seen in any strategy game more than 1 working class too - except in WCIII where there are Acolytes mining gold and Ghouls wood, but... wait... Ghouls are actual creatures, right?
Well, than maybe if we make them creatures not workers and gave them other specific usable skills etc. that may work? Sure, but than they always have to be included in game and that makes easier to predict what enemy dungeon (if playing as evil would be included in Dwelvers) could as well as they require more bed spaces, resources etc. My point is that splitting single worker class for more worker classes would require to gave all of them their special characteristics, skills, beds, behaviours, skins, rally flag, etc. It's IMO more cost-effective, clear and easier to manage only 1 working class and split their tasks on creatures.

What I think more about that I see another approach - in Dwelvers Imps requires some resources too so basically... in Dwelvers we could not have any workers, but creatures only, right?
All of them could be usable in fight as well in production chain, like today we have human constructors, builders etc, but they're all even if it comes to be a soldier. If we have more than one creature that could dig tiles (like Orcs), build rooms (like Rogues) and transport items (that could include Trade as well) maybe that would work, but than who would at the beginning of the game build rooms and do excavations?
I think it's much easier just to leave digging, transporting resources and building rooms to workers and the rest leave to creatures, at least this could be done.


RE: Imps are too busy - Xaos - 20-06-2018

Quote:I haven't seen in any strategy game more than 1 working class too

Most strategy games only have 1-2 resources. Most of them don't have a type of excavation like this game has. So the workers usually only mine, transport the resources that they have personally mined, and build structures. Difference here is that imps have 20+ jobs that they do. There are a few of the other creatures that help in a limited way, like Rogues and Orcs.

I would be all for Orcs doing all the digging, imps transporting and maybe Piggeh building rooms? These 3 are creatures that you start with already now. It is just frustrating to watch an imp travel all the way across the map, do a very little bit, then go back across the map to do a different job.


RE: Imps are too busy - Sebt - 21-06-2018

That would be a solution, Piggeh and Orcs are already spawning at the beginning, but maybe there should be other creature spawning at the beginning to build rooms, because Piggeh's is too slow.

Moreover I liked how was that working in Dungeon Keeper 1, where more than 1 creature could work for example in Workshop, but if it was not specializing in working there it's working efficiency in this room was decreased (like now Imps in Dwelvers can work in every room with decreased efficiency if there are no creatures that could operate the room devices). That made possible to have more unpredictable creature mix and you didn't have to use the same creatures in every game - for example Trolls that had the highest working rate in Workshop, but were poor battlers - could be replaced by 3-4 Mistresses or Skeletons if you could afford them.


RE: Imps are too busy - Rasmus - 25-06-2018

What I'm afraid of here is that the player won't be able to dig if the orcs are in battle or that they are all dead. We could do it so that we have the imps doing the job if the orc's don't. But what if we only have one orc left, it's hard to balance how many imps we would allow digging. With the upcoming update we will have more imps spawning, because with the last version the imp spawning went down a bit.


RE: Imps are too busy - Sebt - 26-06-2018

(25-06-2018, 08:44 AM)Rasmus Wrote: What I'm afraid of here is that the player won't be able to dig if the orcs are in battle or that they are all dead.

1. ATM we can have this issue with Imps. In time when you lost about 40 Imps - because they do not escape like they should and because Rally Flag do not force anyone to go to the flag and cancel their current job immediately - they continue to walk for resources lying on the floors located behind waves of enemies and just dies (only those Imps who survives after finishing their job behind enemy's back goes to a rally flag). So would it be possible to make rally flags forcing all creatures that matched the type of placed rally flag to cancel their jobs INSTANTLY and force them to go to rally flag and/or make them drop on the floor resources they have in hand and force them to go to rally flag? It was done like that in DK, Dungeons, WftO, why not in Dwelvers? Smile

2. Also to speed up resource collecting - Imps are now collecting items on the floor from 1 tile only - what if they could carry up to for example 10 of resources from different tiles in one turn in "gathering-storage" cycle? For example there is a 3x3 area and on each tile lies 1 item (so on 3x3 area there are 9 items total) - an Imp having 10 free space in bag could go there and pick up all items lying on this 3x3 area in 1 turn instead of going 9 times from there to storage to collect resources from each one tile separately.

3. To decrease amount of jobs Imps have to made would it be also possible to give a Antroot Farm jobs (gathering Antroots, feeding Mill, gathering Flour) to some new creature or Fishmen (they would look awesome in some straw hat)?...

4. Could also be feeding Mice Trap and fetching water from Well done only by creatures that uses antroot/water in production? For example Fishman takes water from Well directly to Farm Land tile it wants to water with, Fishman takes Antroot just harvested from Farm Room directly to Mice trap, Orc takes water from Well directly to Forge & Anvil - no need to store water at blue room flag. Smile
The only water stored in Storage Rooms would be fetched one from some dungeon water areas.
EDIT: I think in general working creatures could go to the nearest storage for item they need to production without needing Imps to take items there - creatures working in rooms are often idle when Imps are always busy, so that would also help I think making Imps more free to work on digging or constructing. Especially that I often experience lack of water in Baking Table or Forge & Anvil.