Brainstorm Creature Mechanic - New enemy AI and some improvements
#1
I have been working on making the game compatible with steam the last days and have been rather successful. But before I release the game on steam I want to get the game balanced. These are my suggestions on doing this.

Enemies
Right now the enemies is way to predictable, they don't attack unless the player expand his territory. So to solve this we need to get some enemies with digging abilities down the portals. My idea is that if the player has claimed a area close enough to a portal enemies will start to come, and dig their way through you dungeon. So the only way to stop these enemies is to destroy their portal. If the player is far away from the closest portal the closest portal will still release enemies to dig towards your dungeon but it will take way longer time..

This system should keep the player busy and on the toes directly from start.

Creature cost
It is way to easy to create creatures now. I have been thinking about removing the shard system and go back to the item feeding to the dark mother. This is because the player can now trade the items he needs in the portals to create creatures.

Building cost
The buildings must be way more expensive.

Feeding
I think I read somewhere that one baking table and one brewery keeps 10+ orcs well feed and drunk. This is to easy. Either we need to make the creatures eat more food, or make the brewery and baking table produce less beer and bread.


These are my thoughts for now, my plan is to start implementing the enemy digging later tonight..
Reply
#2
Also, once you find a lake you are set, food-wise, for the rest of the game. Fish should be a finite source or way slower to re-appear.

[EDIT]

It just occurred to me an alternative to making fish finite. Keep the infinite, but make them respawn somewhere else randomly. Once a fish spot is fished completely, is only logical that fishes will get scared of returning there, so they would migrate to another spot on the lake.

This way, if you want to live of fish, you'll have to spend a lot of wood making piers, and each pier you make over the water will be one less spot where a new fish may appear.
Reply
#3
I think having the fish spawn times increased would be the best route to take. I could see bridges getting in the way for random spawns or even someone building bridges in such a way that the opening for getting to fish is static because it it the only spot on the water where a bridge hasn't been built.

Enemies digging towards the dungeon is a much needed improvement, but I would like to see them try to dig around the outside of your walls looking for an opening before they try and brute force their way in. Making sure they spawn without being overwhelming for your initial combat force is going to be key.

Going back to the old style of creating creatures is ok by me, but I would like to see the shards be available for other things later in the game like imbuing equipment, or for special constructions/magical items. How those would be acquired would be a great task to attach to the Prison/Torture Chamber like we had discussed prior about extracting essences from prisoners. This will also give you a reason to build a Prison besides just to get new creature types.

Building costs should definitely go up.

I had mentioned I was sustaining my dungeon of 40 Imps and 13 Orcs with one Baking Table and one Brewer. I think that the Imps just don't consume that much, and 13 Orcs don't really put that much of a dent in your food supply. As the dungeon gets bigger and more creatures are introduced, I think that will solve a good portion of the problem, but also certain creatures should consume more than others. It would be nice once we get there that it doesn't take more than 30 minutes to really get several rooms built and create multiple creature types, but we need more creature types first.
Reply
#4
(17-07-2014, 06:03 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote: [...] even someone building bridges in such a way that the opening for getting to fish is static because it it the only spot on the water where a bridge hasn't been built.
I know I said lake, but I meant for the fishes to respawn anywhere on the map, wherever there's water. Also, they could perfectly spawn below a bridge, and the player would see them there, but they wouldn't be able to catch them unless you sell the bridge above... losing the piece of wood to the water.

This way, you have to be actively looking for fishes instead of just building a long bridge and letting the imps do all the waiting and fishing.


I agree with everything else by the way, regarding building costs going up, bread/beer going down, enemies going towards us and shards temporarily going away. It's all necessary towards balance.
Reply
#5
Here are my thoughts on your thoughts, Ras:

Quote:Enemies
Right now the enemies is way to predictable, they don't attack unless the player expand his territory. So to solve this we need to get some enemies with digging abilities down the portals. My idea is that if the player has claimed a area close enough to a portal enemies will start to come, and dig their way through you dungeon. So the only way to stop these enemies is to destroy their portal. If the player is far away from the closest portal the closest portal will still release enemies to dig towards your dungeon but it will take way longer time..
I agree. I'd like to see some enemies that do seek out the player. Perhaps a feature we discussed a few months back could work here as well, a creature aggressiveness level, which would go up the more you harm a particular type of creature, and as it gets higher that type of creature seeks out your lair more aggressively. That would allow for some breathing room to build your early dungeon in peace, as no one knows you're there nor has any particular reason to hate you yet. As you start killing, raiding and torturing, the creatures become more aggressive and for those that spawn, their aggressiveness would also influence the rate or probability of a spawn, so they attack more aggressively and appear more frequently as you get more hated.

Quote:Creature cost
It is way to easy to create creatures now. I have been thinking about removing the shard system and go back to the item feeding to the dark mother. This is because the player can now trade the items he needs in the portals to create creatures.
I couldn't agree more. Previously, it was way too hard to create orcs in the beginning of the game, with the need for gold which was often not available until after you broke into a large cavern where you would already have needed that gold to build more orcs to survive the onslaught, the very gold you broke into that cavern to get. I had a few messy defeats due to lack of gold. Now it's gone too far the other way, just keep dumping common items into the DMs maw until enough shards are available to make whatever you want in whatever quantities you want.

Quote:Building cost
The buildings must be way more expensive.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Quote:Feeding
I think I read somewhere that one baking table and one brewery keeps 10+ orcs well feed and drunk. This is to easy. Either we need to make the creatures eat more food, or make the brewery and baking table produce less beer and bread.

Sounds like it's time to add the Piggeh into the game! Tongue 1 or 2 of those fat gluttons should be able to go through all the food and beer a dozen bakers tables, brewing vats and schools of fish could each produce. Dodgy
[Image: 11619898803_7d3a89e6bd_n.jpg]
The Golden One!
Reply
#6
(17-07-2014, 03:34 PM)Rasmus Wrote: Enemies
Well, depending on what cause enemies to come from portals or other places you will get a results in number, type and their weaponry. If we would make that humans come from Surface world coming from Barracks or we could make time events or spot events - you dig to one place and step on script ascribe to that tile activates alarm, makes enemies to come, etc. - this would work better. Of course nothing is better then AI player that decides where to go and do what.

(17-07-2014, 03:34 PM)Rasmus Wrote: Creature cost
It is way to easy to create creatures now. I have been thinking about removing the shard system and go back to the item feeding to the dark mother. This is because the player can now trade the items he needs in the portals to create creatures.

Aaaaa, we spent hours on Skype with whole team and here on 6 pages on the forum to discuss how creature production could look like... Big Grin
But, I said when shards came they will be just replacement for items, but whatever system is about using items that can be manufactured or dug will cause the same problem...

Maybe we should back to thread about essences? http://forum.dwelvers.com/showthread.php?tid=673
I think if we could.. hmm... model creatures from items and then use something that will give them life energy that could work, but we need to know from what and where this life energy four come, maybe from other creatures, maybe the life energy could be produced more as bigger dungeon we have?

(17-07-2014, 03:34 PM)Rasmus Wrote: Building cost
The buildings must be way more expensive.

Some room devices/building could cost manufactured resources, even many different of these items that are harder to mame because resource needed to make them are harder to find or requires another manufactured items. Also it's good idea to make these for greater cost.

(17-07-2014, 03:46 PM)Excess Wrote: It just occurred to me an alternative to making fish finite. Keep the infinite, but make them respawn somewhere else randomly. Once a fish spot is fished completely, is only logical that fishes will get scared of returning there, so they would migrate to another spot on the lake.

Hmm, maybe? I'll give an example of fishing:
In Tzar: The Burden of the Crown (spent hours, days, months playing it!) you have fishing pools that contains 5000 fish.
Each your fishing boat could take 50 of fish each time it cast a net.
Fish pool regenerates 50 fish by 10 seconds, so if you don't have more fishing boats that could gather fish faster then can be reproduced you'll gain an infinite source of fish, but... you need food so fast that it's really rare to get them less than can be reproduced.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
Reply
#7
I followed MelloConfused advice here on having them building around the dungeon, it also reminded me of DK1 (which I haven't played but I have seen some videos of people playing it). The AI aggression test video showed a worst case scenario when all creatures from all directions wanted to attack the dungeon, this is not how it will work in the game. I will probably make it so that only creatures within a certain radius from the player dungeon would be interested in attacking, but they will not engage the player 100% of the times. The portals will be remade a little I think. I was thinking that with each portal a couple of rogues could be created at its entrance, and once the rogues have been able to dig into the player dungeon the knights will come, and they will continue coming until the player has claimed the portal.

I should have made these topics seperatly, I will only respond on the creature AI for now, when I reach the other topics like Building costs and so on I will reply on those comments, but I want to add that I really like the fish discussion here Big Grin
Reply
#8
Focusing on Goodly AI, I'm gonna plug the 'Evil Influence' discussion we had a while back again. I would really like to see Goodlies aggression towards you be a direct reflection of how much Evil Influence you have. The more influence, the more aggressively they send troops and tear into your dungeon. At the base level of influence, Goodlies wouldn't care that much about you, or even know you were there.
Reply
#9
I like that idea! All actions should have reactions Smile
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)