Brainstorm Room Mechanic - I wanna give the DM room inifitive storage
#1
There have been several complaints about that it is extremely annoying that the DM room has a finite storage. After 20 minutes of playing the player always have to move all the items from the DM room to another storage room. Also, if the player isn't used to playing Dwelvers he will probably not build a storage room to start with, which means that his whole production chain will be surrounding the DM, and from there he needs to sell buildings and change the room linking and so on.

I don't think the game will be unbalanced if we give the DM unlimited storage. The external storage rooms is mainly there to keep the production go faster further away from the dungeon center.

What do you think?
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#2
I don't mind this idea at all. In fact, I think this will help out a bit in the production chain. I'm already using multiple Storage Rooms in some of my Dungeons to help the production chain along. What I would like to see is those barrels gone, and the DM itself be the storage medium. She would eat the materials and spit up what would need to be transferred. Over time, the materials she ate would digest so you would lose quantity over time.
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#3
I think I will start with just making the barrels infinite, I agree that we need something else than barrels, but having the DM spit up and eat items on demand and have her work like a storage medium could be a little to much as a starter.
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#4
hehe, funny reading
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#5
(05-08-2014, 04:08 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote: Over time, the materials she ate would digest so you would lose quantity over time.

I love this idea, it's a brilliant way to balance the storage.

(05-08-2014, 10:35 PM)Rasmus Wrote: [...] having the DM spit up and eat items on demand and have her work like a storage medium could be a little to much as a starter.

I was never very fond of the need to feed each individual item to the dark mother. I wouldn't mind changing it to something like...

Open mouth > take/put all the resources needed (4 resources per second maybe?) > Close mouth.

(05-08-2014, 11:22 PM)Marcus Ljunggren Wrote: hehe, funny reading

I swear it all makes sense, WE AREN'T CRAZY!
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#6
That's something I really wanted in DK 2 and totally in DK 1 when you haven't Treasury Room built in Dungeon Heart. Storage Rooms always are built one for certain place where items are gathered or produced, so making DM's storage units with infinite space for resources in game where maps are really huge makes sense. I also like Mello's idea about digesting with a time items, maybe as more we have them as more DM's digesting or there will be given an initial time for player to which items wouldn't be digested yet?
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#7
I find that managing the storage capacities is part of the fun of the game. Maybe DM storage capacity could be set based on the difficulty level, easiest level = infinite storage, and finite storage for all the other levels. So the beginner player could start out on an easy game with infinite storage while a veteran player could get finite storage and have to manage storage capacity to keep production chains going.

One thing that will need to be addressed though, is the disposal of unneeded items, feeding them to the DM in exchange for shards to build creatures with was an effective way of doing this, but which that method being replaced with a new creature creation method, a new way of scrapping items that are not needed and just filling up storage space and jamming up production chains of essential items like food and weapons must exist. Having the ability to get rid of those unwanted items that do noting but fill up storage space is absolutely essential for a resource management game.
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#8
Hmm. We can also just increase base DM's storage capacity maybe even 10 times, then during the play when for example Evil Meter points are growing DM could have more capacity for items.
I like also SU's idea of setting DM's capacity relating to game difficulty level player choose for map, the same system you can spot in Heroes oM&M III.
And yea unwanted items could be utilized somehow or just released to the air/ground, recycled. Big Grin
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#9
(12-08-2014, 08:23 AM)Seriously Unserious Wrote: I find that managing the storage capacities is part of the fun of the game. Maybe DM storage capacity could be set based on the difficulty level, easiest level = infinite storage, and finite storage for all the other levels. So the beginner player could start out on an easy game with infinite storage while a veteran player could get finite storage and have to manage storage capacity to keep production chains going.

The main reason I want an infinitive storage is to make the learning curve a little bit more smooth. All new players who don't know that it is possible to build storage rooms will have all their production stopped sooner or later. This is a way to enable the newbies to have some freedom from start. The problem isn't the storage capacity, it is that it is impossible to increase the storage capacity in the DM room. Perhaps we could look into that in future versions.

(12-08-2014, 08:23 AM)Seriously Unserious Wrote: One thing that will need to be addressed though, is the disposal of unneeded items, feeding them to the DM in exchange for shards to build creatures with was an effective way of doing this, but which that method being replaced with a new creature creation method, a new way of scrapping items that are not needed and just filling up storage space and jamming up production chains of essential items like food and weapons must exist. Having the ability to get rid of those unwanted items that do noting but fill up storage space is absolutely essential for a resource management game.

I agree, one thing that could solve this is to have really expensive buildings that costs certain items and actually contribute to the gameplay. Atm the orc statue will attract more orcs, and it does cost a lot of stone, so that is something that would limit the number of stones Smile

(12-08-2014, 09:11 AM)Sebt Wrote: Hmm. We can also just increase base DM's storage capacity maybe even 10 times, then during the play when for example Evil Meter points are growing DM could have more capacity for items.
I like also SU's idea of setting DM's capacity relating to game difficulty level player choose for map, the same system you can spot in Heroes oM&M III.
And yea unwanted items could be utilized somehow or just released to the air/ground, recycled. Big Grin

Answered in my reply to SU Smile
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#10
@Rasmus: The capacity of the DM storage isn't an issue for me. I already know if it's limitations and can work around that by building storage rooms, but I agree that a newbie may not know about that. That's why I suggested making the DM storage capacity linked to the game difficulty level, so at easy DM storage is infinite, at medium it's 10X current capacity, and at hard it's whatever the current capacity is. If a difficulty level beyond "hard" is there that could have DM storage down to half current, and an even harder difficulty level could have no DM storage at all, just like earlier versions where the first thing you had to build was a store room, otherwise production chains would not function. The reason I suggest this is that veteran players may get bored of Dwelvers with infinite storage at all difficulty levels, and no need to be managing your resources in a resource management game to me just seems silly.

I get the need to give a helping hand to newbies, but giving to everyone and holding the hand of veteran players who need more of a challenge to stay interested kind of breaks one of the main components of the game, managing the resource of storage space. If you can store infinitely many items, there is really no need to bother with store rooms at all, and no need to manage production, just spam the dungeon with as many items and can be found/produced and who cares about the details like where it's gonna be stored? Just stuff it all in the DM room.

Like I said, the Difficulty levels have to mean something, otherwise what's the point in having them if all difficulty levels are about the same difficulty? Tying DM storage capacity to the levels gives the new player the helping hand of not getting jammed up, right away, but the veteran who knows how to avoid getting jammed up does not need this help and can just choose a harder difficulty setting to get rid of it. It's all about tailoring the game to the different needs of the different players. You have a system already in place for that, the difficulty settings, use them.
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#11
Yeah, but I do feel like it is a big flaw in the game when the dark mother room has storage capacity that can't be expanded. If it was possible to build shelves in the dm room it would still be limited, and if the dm room could be upgraded during the game play so that it could have more storage there would still never be enough storage unless the storage is unlimited. I don't think it is good to force the player to build storage rooms around the dm room and then link the routes away from the dm room just so that it don't get clogged up.

I believe you have been in the situation at some point where you were forced to demolish other rooms around the DM room just because the storage room you built next to it wasn't big enough. The only way to play around this is to dig out a big enough area around the dm room from start and then expand the storage room in this area when enough resources becomes available, and forcing the player to build like this straight from start is something I like, the dm room is supposed to be the center of the whole production chain, not to be something that the player should avoid.

If we come up with a good idea further down the road to solve this without using unlimited storage this is something we can implement. But right now I think that having unlimited storage in the dm room is way better for the gameplay than having a limited storage.
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#12
How about DM room upgrades? You could use a certain amount of resources to upgrade the storage in the DM to a better kind then the barrels with very little space. The amount you start with can be set by the difficulty level, so you start with extra (or even unlimited) at the lowest difficulty level, then it goes down to eventually half current capacity at the hardest levels. Each upgrade could increase it by a certain multiplier, up to some maximum capacity reached after a few upgrades. The first few could just require constructing normal resources, with the last few requiring a mage or priest to cast an expensive spell to increase the DM storage capacity. This could be accessible via the right click radial menu in the DM room.
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#13
I made a simulation and now I'm seeing this idea of increasing DM's capacity different now...

DM is a storage room like any other. Making her storage capacity infinite is like increasing any storage room to the infinity. Actually you can make so amazingly big dungeon without having ANY, ZERO, NULL storage rooms...

You'll need SRs only when something has to be gathered from far away (but without them you can play and even win map with zero SRs, right? Just time of getting resources from far away places will be longer - in other hand imps are so fast I wouldn't even bother that...), but w8 a minute ... from this far away storage I'll need resources to rooms in my dungeon, so I need to move them from there... ehh.. and someone's complaining that he have to move resources from dark mother to room next door? Then make that you click on DM on "Send all items to nearest storage room" and Imps better do it... Newbies will have everything explained in in-game tutorial, after this they'll know how go use storages and allocate resources.

IMO having customizable DM's capacity as starting resources will be the one and only option that could make me happy. During campaign size of DM's storage could be adjusted (including starting resources) to difficulty and what map creator set how much and what decide to put in each difficulty level.
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#14
Increasing / Upgrading the storage room would work. But I don't have the time to add that option until the next release. When comparing a limited DM storage room and a unlimited DM storage room I choose the second. This is because what I have said before, the dm room is the center of the dungeon and is a obstacle when it has a limited storage, I don't want the player to be forced to build storage rooms around the dm storage room. It makes no sense and is really bad gameplay.

When it comes to if no storage rooms are necessary I don't agree! If the player choose to only use the DM room it is up to him, but he will notice that the production chain will get really really slow if there are no other close by storage rooms.

For those of you that have played Settlers and other resource management games the head quarter usually have an unlimited storage. But the players are always forced to make storage rooms non the less.
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#15
I'm with you on this one, mostly because I have had my production chain grind to a halt because the DM was a middleman between my storage rooms and things were backing up at the DM. I can understand the reluctance to infinite storage, but at the same time I like keeping production running smoothly. Maybe, getting back to what I mentioned earlier there could be some kind of penalty for using the DM as storage which would encourage people to use a normal storage room to store items to avoid the penalty. Any penalty right now would be ineffective as a deterrent for this with the amount of resources in the game, but later once that becomes more balanced, it could make a difference.
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