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Feedback/Modification Room Mechanic - No fences around Farm Room
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Tibérius Offline
Dungeon Lord

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Post: #1
Room Mechanic - No fences around Farm Room
Hi, I loved so much DK1-2 and now its a real presure to see whats going on with Dwelvers!

I would like to talk about fences aroud the farm room.

First, whats that for if anyway on a 9X9 blocs we put 8 doors to maximise the speed of our imps?

Secondly, after puting a lots of doors, it doesnt look beautiful like if it doesnt fit on it...

Thirdly, because most of the time we will put a doors in front of the mill, why dont we just take off the fences and let a free way as the bar room? We dont put chiken inside the farm room and the antroots wont go out, so lets take off the fences! Have you ever seen a wheatfiel surounding by fences? That does make any sens...

Fourthly, the game will be a bit lighter.

That was my opinion guys. Dont be so rough with me plz Wink Stay positive!
(This post was last modified: 22-11-2014 11:44 AM by Sebt.)
16-11-2014 03:27 AM
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Tamorr Offline
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Post: #2
RE:
Unsure what to make of this one. I can understand where the idea is coming from, but really wheat fields do have fences. Although there is usually a dirt road between the fence and the actual field; this being made for farm equipment to travel around the edge and each section. mainly meant to keep wild creatures out or livestock in away from fields of crops. Also meant to slow down sentience to cross over to their crop with ease. (usually barbed wire fencing) Even another reason is to divide fields up and designate property borders, at least when thinking real world reasons.

I guess I don't really place that many doors as you do, as it just makes sense to have a few entrances in key places. The fields themselves don't have too many workers. The 2x4 fields I usually make only have 1-3. I only have at most 2 entrances in that particular one; since it is surrounded by wall on all but one side. If I decide to have a mill it uasually faces outward along the path imps would walk or down it.

Again though it would be an efficiency increase that would be only slight. They still have to walk over to each plot, and easily go through those gates; no matter where the entry point is. In my opinion there really isn't an increase in production or efficiency by having all doors. At least in the way I play things. My efficiency drops or production declines are usually do to the production chains themselves or not enough of some kind of resource.

You still got a valid point though, even if it doesn't really affect much in the way that I play. I might have to see for myself on this, but I have not really seen any difference when I had 4 doors compared to just 1-2. hmm....
16-11-2014 03:52 AM
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Tibérius Offline
Dungeon Lord

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Post: #3
RE: No fences around Farm Room
Sometimes farmers put a fences for some reason I dont know... because that doesnt make any sens to me... except to delimit.

I went on Google Maps and walked on wheat field in USA just for fun. I gave the link right there: Wheat field

...and by what you can see there is much more fields without fences.

Anyway the thing is, I played a lot on DK2 and what we want of Dwelvers is to have fun rapidly, growing our army and fight against the enemy.

The game you play is possibly the best, but I am not sure that Dwelvers will keep young players if its too complicate to think on the systeme of mill, antroot, beer... wich have arrows to indicate the sens of the building entrence...

I talked about fences but the main idea is to try to eliminate the superfluous that slow the gameplay. Like there wouldnt be arrows, but only a building we can put any direction we want. The game must be fluid as Warcraft or Starcraft you know. It can stay really cool for design even if there is no fences.

Arrows buildings can be an other subject that I would like to talk later.

I know its hard to take complain about what we build. But I think its an opportunity to give something better and better each time poeple complain Angel
18-11-2014 07:43 PM
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Tamorr Offline
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Post: #4
RE:
Those two games you mentioned really are only placed one way on a static map. You just plop them down and have a defined entrance/exit to each building. I don't remember well enough but I don't even think you could truly rotate the map. Haven't played those originals in a long time. Although rotation isn't my point.

In this game you actually decide which direction the building is facing. And will look different from all angles since it is 3D. I don't quite understand how it would effectively slow gameplay down. I guess I might be missing something.

I've seen many fields fenced and unfenced throughout the US. Moved around a whole lot when I was younger. I knew is really wasn't due to the fence being the primary aspect, but it is what you were referencing to not have. Either way it wouldn't really bother me, as I have said it is something I myself don't really notice much difference, and technically wouldn't speed gameplay up by a whole lot.

At least the way that I play the game. The time it takes them to walk their paths would roughly be the same either way, as they would still have to travel from point A to B. It sounds like it would do a lot in theory, but really from my understanding; it wouldn't. Well the way I see it.

So I guess I am just not understand what you mean by slowing the gameplay down. Not all things need to be necessary, but at this stage quite a bit does need to be worked in I would think. Some things are more aesthetic than stats. Like the environment that you work with. Plenty of that. Reeds in the water, and the like.

I do somewhat agree with the last bit, however to make something better and better doesn't always end up being so; but is a decent way to improve or keep line of thought.Smile
19-11-2014 05:47 AM
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Tibérius Offline
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Post: #5
RE: No fences around Farm Room
Slowing the game a bit down for fences but if we put everything, that makes longer. By exemple:
chairs around table... why chairs doesnt come already with the table? The design is cool but its not made to go fast towards fun and gameplay.

If I was the creator I would spend my time on gameplay to make playability longer and players happy... I played more than 3 hours to find out how can we build library as DK2 were able to do... but in vain Sad

Everything looks important in Dwelvers except the most important thing: gameplay. Its cool to feed our army and chill with them at the bar, help them at the mill, make will for water and forge some sharpen blades...

but there is a big gap between Dwelvers and DK2 and I am sure the developer wanted to make Dwelvers more cool than DK2. I mean the game is in the good direction but when I bought it I expect something more completed and achieved. I cannot play more than 1 hours... for 16.99$ that too much for me... Its tough to launch a game but the real question is: Do people will like it if I launch it right now?

Really I do prefer Dwelvers to DK2 comparing what is created but there is a lack that I cannot support and understand...
19-11-2014 03:32 PM
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Tamorr Offline
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Post: #6
RE:
I guess we just have different things we consider fun & gameplay, which is granted. For me I enjoy quite a bit of the micro-management of placing things where I want.

Like in the table & chair example, if I wanted a chair to be only on a certain side of the table; I could do that, as each is placed separately. Wouldn't want both to be placed as a set, as that makes it more brash for room setup. I do like both DK2 and this one for separate reasons.

In DK2 there was setup as well, but done in different way. Especially if you wanted certain monsters, granted that was offering a bonus for doing so. That might be the difference, however I usually play for building upon aesthetics. The way things look, which is gameplay for myself, but not always for others. It is just another aspect of the game.

Gameplay isn't always about mechanics, rewards, and stats... if not a few other things, it is mainly what each will do in the game that would be considered gameplay. I understand that not all will do certain things, as there are many different playstyles and ways to go about playing each game.

To move the game forward or have set goals that need to be accomplished and so forth; well so far quite a bit has not been put in as of yet. So at the moment the game is getting several mechanics, things, and other possibilities being put in for the over all whole.

Right now there isn't much to do as it is, and not very many set goals; unless made by yourself, that is another story. Anyway to sum it all up gameplay is more than 1 way to look at a game, as even gameplay itself has a broad meaning.
19-11-2014 04:20 PM
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Sebt Offline
An upcoming creature?
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Post: #7
RE:
I'm not sure about this, fences are obstacles, but in other hand makes Farm Room looking nice... hmm... added to Ideas & Game Features list anyway. Smile
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
20-11-2014 06:54 PM
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Mello Tonin Offline
Guru O' Mello
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Post: #8
RE:
I think this one is more of a non-starter. Like Tamorr, I don't really see how this affects the speed of the game. There are plenty of other factors that contribute to slow game play, and I don't believe pathing around fences is one of them. It is true that there is still a lot to do before the game can keep all types of gamers attention for longer periods of time, but personally where I spend most of my time in this game is looking for bugs, and digging out the map to make really cool dungeon designs. Right now that can take many hours to accomplish, at least until the game becomes more streamlined.

You have to remember too that this game is still in the Alpha stages of development. This stage is mostly about getting the core mechanics fluid enough to add more content which generally comes in the Beta stages of development. I don't know how it cost you $16.99 as it is $14.99 on Steam and an even $15 on the website unless sales tax is included. And even so, that's pretty much the going rate for most Early Access games. Realistically, when the game is completed, I would expect the price to increase to $29.99 or more because otherwise Rasmus may not be getting back his investment in developing the game. That's also another reason I try and get games on Early Access that look to be worth my investment because I expect that the price for the game will increase once the final release is available, and plus if it is a game I'm really into like this one, I get a chance to give my input into making it better and help find flaws in the game. This way I feel I have more of a connection with the game because I helped be a part of the development even if it is in a small way.
21-11-2014 04:24 PM
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Davgoblin Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Room Mechanic - No fences around Farm Room
Yeah, no big long post for this.

I'm actually a fan of the fences. Put me on the pro fences team. Keep those damn orcs off my crops. Don't you have.. things to kill, or.. something?

Also, I'm not trying to tear you down, Tiberius. But I'm a fan of putting chairs in after the table is build in the dinning room, as well. It allows you to control the traffic of how many creatures can consume food at one time. I do wish, however, that the game would allow you to dictate placing chairs adjacent to tables -before- the table is completed. So you could dictate where your chairs go on that table right after you put in the blue print for it, rather than having to wait for your imps to finish constructing it completely before you are able to put chairs in.

Oh, and I wasn't gonna make this long, but I do have one more point I want to make. This game is fun, as it stands, there's just not enough content, because it's in beta. For one, the game looks pretty. And believe it or not, that's worth a lot in price. A lot of people -say- they only care about gameplay. But that's -really- not as true as much as most the people that say that believe.. There are a mess of games that have rock solid, fun game play that you have never heard of, nor would you even consider playing, let alone paying for, simply because of one thing... It looks like ass.

It might seem swallow, but it's completely and entirely true. Art style and feel are very important in a game. But a pretty art style is also -work-. And work means it's gonna cost more. 15 bucks. Not bad.
23-11-2014 05:30 AM
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Tibérius Offline
Dungeon Lord

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Post: #10
RE: Room Mechanic - No fences around Farm Room
Fences are great for me but only if the game is already advenced wich is not. The graphic are kick ass for sure and its not my point if you have read all. And 16$ its cheap but only if I can play more than 2 hours total... my opinion. Its Alpha I know.

I mean I wouldnt said nothing if we could be able to play like at least more than 10h what is really not possible actually... in the futur, yes. But we've paid today.

It feels like if I sell beautiful cars with all gadgets but after paying, you can not drive it, but only sit into it... thats what iam feeling right now because I really want to play it a bit more than 2h.

I just said, fences and paint on wall wouldnt be my first priorities for alpha game. Details are very important too, but i was meaning in Alpha game, they arent... DK2 still the best in all style you want, for me. And still a lot of work to do until it get better than DK2, and it CAN! I am sure.
26-11-2014 07:44 AM
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Davgoblin Offline
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Post: #11
RE:
Try hard mode.. You'll play for 10 hours, easy. <.< Sure, only because the monsters you run into will require you grind and train up your forces more, but still; as you said, it is an alpha. Now, I'm new to this whole 'pay for the alpha' on good faith the final product is good thing. Honestly, I'm not sure giving the demographic you're targeting your game toward a say in how you make it is always the best choice as the game could loose it's focus very quickly. This is why I won't be to sad if not a single idea I come up with is implimented. Wel, that's not true, I'll be a little sad; but I'll get it.

However, on the other hand, a game like this almost seems made for this sort of upbringing. There are so many fans of, well I don't want to name -just- dungeon keeper fans, but I think there a good portion of the reason I'm actually looking forward to see what is made of this now humble game. There are so many people. People such as you, I, Mello, Sebt, and many others, that played Dungeon Keeper and said 'damn this is awesome.. but it'd be even more awesome if you could do this. Or even way more awesome if you could do that. See, maybe it's just me, but I think that perhaps some of the best ideas that people come up with for this, will be rather old ideas. Sure, it will be the idea of the person that suggests it. But it will not have been born here, nor today, nor last week. The seeds of what will make this game great will have been planted a long time ago in the minds of the sugguesting party when they were playing a much older game. Someone saying to themselves, long ago, 'This is awesome.. but I wish I could give my monsters armor and junk, that'd be waaay awesome. Or, I wish this trap system was more complicated than just 'set up turret and lightning trap here'. Those are two great ideas right there that I can almost say with certainty were birthed long before Dwelvers came into being. And, also, those are two ideas the game already has included in it.

So, I wouldn't feel to let down that the pot is still stewing even though you payed for the meal. The meal will come. And it will be good. The only thing to be weary of, I think, is that amongst all the ideas, that the game remains true to itself, and keeps a strong core and solid direction amongst all the ideas trying to worm their way into the pot. After all, ketchup tastes good, and strawberries taste good. But ketchup and strawberries are not good. And I don't mind seeing a little paint on the walls and white picket fences here and again to settle my mind on my investment while the makers of this game settle on whether they prefer cake, or hamburger.
(This post was last modified: 29-11-2014 03:37 AM by Davgoblin.)
29-11-2014 03:35 AM
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Rasmus Offline
Main developer of Dwelvers
Dwelvers Developers

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Post: #12
RE:
I am not sure if I want the option to remove fences, this is because of the reason that the farm land is a building by its own with the fence included. I could maybe make it so that the creatures could jump over the fence if they have too, but I don't know... This is something I don't put high up on my prio list atm, maybe I will add the option in the future.

2 hours of game play in its current is something that I expect if the game isn't played into the smallest detail. There are a lot of gamers out there that like to decorate their dungeon and build it the way they want too, and find pleasure in that, for them the game play is considerably longer I think, and it is for them I also avoid having bar chairs for example not being put out automatically. Then we have the other gamers, that like the strategy in the game, building traps, training creatures and attacking at key locations at certain moments to cripple the enemy. This type of game play still have a lot of work left.

The goal is too find a balance between these two, being able to enjoy the dungeon that has been built and see the productivity at its fullest, but at the same time fight of enemy forces in a not so straight forward way as it is now.

There is still a lot of work left before I am satisfied...
04-12-2014 05:02 AM
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