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Feedback/Modification I & S - Always Dig Key
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Davgoblin Offline
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Post: #1
I & S - Always Dig Key
The Short
Adding a button on the keyboard that when held forces a dig action and ignores units. The reverse an 'Never Dig Key' might also be a good idea, but I don't feel it will come in as handy as the primary suggestion.


The Long
Apologies if there is something like this already included in the game and I'm just to dumb to know it's there.

This is a real simple suggestion. An 'always dig key', basically, a button on your keyboard; such as shift, or alt; that, when held, will force your click to dig the spot selected, and ignore whatever creatures might be in the way.

This happens to me a lot, especially when I'm trying to dig down deeper into the earth. Trying to dig out a spot only to keep selecting an imp that who seems to be enjoying his minion union coffee break right smack dab on the place I'm trying to work. No, I don't want to know how Alex is doing.. I want Alex to stop drinking his damn coffee and dig those twigs under his damn feet! XD

A 'Never dig key' would be cool too, as it would make it so you could eliminate the risk of misclick digs when trying to select a particular creature.

Alternative Sugguestion
An alternative suggestion would be being forbidden to dig unless a key is held.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2014 06:08 PM by Sebt.)
24-11-2014 04:33 AM
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Tamorr Offline
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Post: #2
RE:
Not sure about adding a key for this, as adjusting some priorities would be fine. That along with maybe the last bit of what you mention, to hold a button down in order to do something.

Maybe instead have a toggle button to prioritize either or. Onscreen and keyboard short cut. That way when you want to dig that will be the command the clicks will be focused on, and when you don't just hit the toggle and you can select thing more easily.

Granted this will probably not stop the use of the dig command when the toggle is set to non-dig, it will just prioritize less when it is set that way. The opposite is true. Well it is the idea behind what I had in mind.

And yes it is somewhat a minor frustration when you do digging down that you have to wait for them to transport the materials in order to continue orders to dig. Not that you couldn't issue the dig order, just difficult to click the place instead of a unit while they are transporting materials on the space...
24-11-2014 03:41 PM
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Mataran Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Interface Idea - Always Dig Key
This actually is a good idea! While trying impossible difficulty, it takes imps and orcs longer to mine through a wall or floor that has been reinforced. So when I am making defenses and mazes against rogues and other such creatures, it is really important to have those extra seconds between death and life.
24-11-2014 03:46 PM
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Davgoblin Offline
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Post: #4
RE:
Thanks for being keen on this, Mataran.

As for your thoughts, Tamorr. I should note, things like 'holding a key to do this' type actions tend to be a foreign concept to a lot of people. So I can understand you being a little hesitant of something like that being included versus something that tends to be a key feature in a lot of other programs, like a togglable button. But, let me tell you, it's used in a lot of 3d programs, and when I use a 3d program that -doesn't- have this feature, it bugs the hell out me. Why? Because it's so, so simple. It makes moving incredibly easy ( a lot of 3d programs use something like left mouse + alt = pan, left mouse by itself = turn, or something like that, so in those instances it effects movement; hence why I say that). And when it's not there, I really miss it.

And in this instance, it feels very much the same. When you want to dig an area out, and there's something in the way, holding a key to insure you dig exactly where you click really would handy. The reasons I believe this is superior to the idea of a toggle click button is as follows. 1) It's something that's situational. And, it's something you only need to have done for a short instance. Hold key, dig, release key, done. Toggling on/off is more for stuff you're gonna need to do a lot of. 2) Sometimes you actually -want- to select the unit on the block. Hey Alex, how are you doing? I imagine accidentally digging down when you're trying to select our friend, dear Alex, would be way worse than accidentally selecting him when when we're trying to dig. Waaay worse. And a toggle key lends to that situation happening if people aren't paying attention. 3) We already have a toggled pick axe/shovel. To many toggles could become confusing.

But my strongest point is this. If a player doesn't know the key exists, it will take <i>nothing</i> away from their game. The way the digging works in the game now is completely functional. This is something that would purely enhance the functionality of the game and take nothing away from it. It is something that players wouldn't need to know how to use, but once they -did- figure out the key was there, and they -did- figure out how it worked, they wouldn't be able to imagine how they played the game before they knew of it's existence.

That's why I think the first suggestion is better in it's current form.


I hope I didn't come off as a ranty dick <.<; I dunno if ya'll have noticed, but I'm more than a tad bit ranty >.>; I tend to over explain everything. I really do appreciate input. Just, I think that a held key would be better. for a number of reasons. Also, after stating that last point, I'm of the view that the alternative suggestion I mentioned in my post isn't good at all. Because, well, the game -is- completely functional as it is.. So, why take away from that by making it a requirement to be held?

I still think there might be some merit to the 'Never Dig' key, but I still don't see it as immediate improvement as the 'Always dig' key. It's something to keep in a back pocket, I think, and why to see how the new 'working in the dark' interface with all it's snazzy looking creature menus turns out. I think after it's implemented, I'll be taking a closer look at my creatures much more often. Big Grin
(This post was last modified: 25-11-2014 12:02 AM by Davgoblin.)
24-11-2014 11:56 PM
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Davgoblin Offline
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Post: #5
RE:
Oh! I just thought of something... Your thought could actually work in connection with the shovel/pickaxe, Tamorr. When you're using the Pickaxe, it's impossible to dig under the feet anyway, so you're most likely trying to select the unit. While on the other hand, if you're using the shovel, it could be flipped to prioritize digging out versus selection, meaning you would need to be in pickaxe mode to handle creatures.

But I still think the held key is better.
25-11-2014 12:10 AM
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Tamorr Offline
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Post: #6
RE:
Oh I know about 3D editing programs, as I had to mess with one to attempt to add content to sim city 4. Might not be the most advanced one but Gmax is the only one I have used to date. Wouldn't mind getting a more advanced one eventually, but since I don't really do 3D moddling much I don't even know the ins and outs even in the basic program.

That aside I do know where you are coming from, I just am putting ideas out there. And thank you for the consideration. I can see how each can and will be used in the programming part. Which is easier is subjective, which is more commonly used is quite obvious as you pointed out.

However the common player wouldn't know either as common. So which ever is best will really depend on correlation to the function as it would be implemented.

The idea as a whole is to get a way to force dig when needed, as the creatures do tend to get in the way a lot when hauling, slowing the progress of the dig itself. That much I agree with, as it is something that needs to be done eventually for ease of use. I do like both ideas of a shift/toggle. So either way you can guarantee that I would use it. Smile
25-11-2014 05:10 AM
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Sebt Offline
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Post: #7
RE:
Added to Ideas & Game Features list.
I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
25-11-2014 02:24 PM
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Davgoblin Offline
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Post: #8
RE:
Thanks Sebt.

After tooling around on Dwelvers last night, I'm starting to think this key (toggle/feature/ whatever) needs to be expanded to just a 'Ignore minion' key. What chances I imply with that is, it wouldn't just be digging, but anything that involves interacting with the world, weather it be placing structures, or putting a rally flag down, to of coarse, digging. During my play last night I sighted multiple instances when I was frustrated with minions in ways that did not involve digging whatsoever. Like trying to drop my Orc rally flag into a mess of humping Cyclotaurs.

Also, I remembered at work today that one of the developers, Ramus, I believe, mentioned something about a held key already being planned for implication, one that will show the blue drop off flags to the player as it is planned in the future for them to be hidden. I think this key would be a great ignore minion key, or rather a 'force interaction with world' key. It's already showing us details about the world we wouldn't know without holding it down, wouldn't it make sense to make it so the key presses when in this viewing mode could do as outlined above?

I believe it is going to be a hold key, but it might be a toggle. Either way, the visual que might help a bit, and I think it would likely be a good idea to combine these two features into one function.
(This post was last modified: 26-11-2014 12:23 AM by Davgoblin.)
26-11-2014 12:18 AM
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Tamorr Offline
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Post: #9
RE:
yes it more directed at the minions is what I thought the idea was about. So you could go about what you are doing with ease and less of a frustration; no matter how it is done.

i notice it when I am trying to select certain things like rooms, while they are scurrying about. So there is a particular use to ensure you are selecting the right thing or doing what you are intending to do. Whether shift or toggle it will be what makes things more accessible or else in the very least could be something explained eventually in the tutorial world. That does need some work for basic features, especially ones that are not so easily recognizable off hand.

Idea as a whole to interact with what you are intending to interact with is the primary thing to note. How to go about doing so is up to them, and us to utilize it to see if more handy than before. Smile
26-11-2014 04:27 PM
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Davgoblin Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Interface Idea - Always Dig Key
(26-11-2014 04:27 PM)Tamorr Wrote:  yes it more directed at the minions is what I thought the idea was about. So you could go about what you are doing with ease and less of a frustration; no matter how it is done.

i notice it when I am trying to select certain things like rooms, while they are scurrying about. So there is a particular use to ensure you are selecting the right thing or doing what you are intending to do. Whether shift or toggle it will be what makes things more accessible or else in the very least could be something explained eventually in the tutorial world. That does need some work for basic features, especially ones that are not so easily recognizable off hand.

Idea as a whole to interact with what you are intending to interact with is the primary thing to note. How to go about doing so is up to them, and us to utilize it to see if more handy than before. Smile

Well, if the implementation of the 'see blue flags' key is done, it will likely be something that players will need to have explained to them, so, you are correct sir. And if the 'See blue flags' key and the 'Force Interaction with world' key are combined, that's two birds with one stone, in my book.
29-11-2014 03:01 AM
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #11
RE:
I like this idea, it would help not only when the player is forced to swap between the pickaxe and the shovel, but also when creatures get in the way as mentioned above.
04-12-2014 04:45 AM
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