Brainstorm Room Mechanic - Re-doing the storage rooms
I have been playing and replaying Dwelvers a lot lately, and try to fix all those minor thing that bugs me. It gives me a lot of inspiration seeing the game play getting smoother as it gives room for other features.
Me too man, well you know how long I've been following this fine game. I love the work you do, and I always know when you disappear from the forum for a bit, you're working hard on improving the game. I've had tons of fun playing with lava, maybe too much (toasty Imps) and I look forward to making use of the storage room again, as well as the surface. Keep up the good work!
What if you keep the storage room as it is, but allow no default storage space, and allow storage containers specific to types of items? Like say, if you build a weapon rack in a storage room, weapons are placed there, or if you build Pantry sub, food is kept there. That way each storage room could be customized to suit particular needs, while still keeping the system about how it is.


Racks: Armor and Weapons
Pantry: Bread
Drying rack: Fish
Grain sack: Flour
Ale Barrel: Ale
Woodhaven: Wood

Each of these, I'm going to label them 'sub buildings' would act like a storage shelf, only to a specific item type. The amount of the item it might hold could be tweaked to suit the amount of that item the player typically collects and hordes, to reduce the concept of 'giant storage rooms. That way, you allow personal customization to each storage room. This allows both customization, as well as achieve the functionality you desire.

If you wanted to make a new room, I might recommend something like a 'temp storage' room, let's call it a 'depot'. Depots could function as a means of allowing drop off, but not be a residence for whatever item is stored there. For example, if the above system was used. One could fill a depo with fish storage spaces and place it near the fishing holes. Fishmen would drop the fish off and return to fishing, leaving it to imps to remove those fish and then take them to the nearest storage room with fish storage as a more permanent residence.
I like idea of "depots" and I see them working more efficient as storage constructions, rather then storage rooms - so that could be placed like tables in Bar rooms or on any tile you control, which actually could work great. Smile

You could place any i.e. weapon rack wherever you want, even on tile near the fishing holes like Dav said. I want to also add that, because there's so much resources in Dwelvers (and probably some more will come) than we should think about having such construction based depots (let's name them cbd for better understanding) more unified for certain kind of resources - Food of any kind in one specific cbd, weaponry on cbd for weapons and armors, some kind of storage construction for rocks of different kind.

I also prefer to keep idea of having in-room storages and ALSO have depots for workers working outside rooms like in excavation field.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
So, more generalized 'Depots', these CBDs, for working and temporary storage, and then Storage rooms, with in-room build sub storages for each individual item type? I think that would work rather well.

I should note that it might be prudent for sub storage spaces, atleast for common stock items, such as Ale barrels for Ale, or Bread Racks for bread; to be as.. how do I put this? They need to only elude to how much is in such a container, rather than the current system of shelves, that show the exact amount of every item. I'll explain I feel this is important later.

There are two systems that could be used for this.

1) The easy method, which would be having every storage device to be completely self contained and enclosed, not allowing for players to see how much is actually inside it.

2) The second method, would be similar to the first method, however the 'fullness' of the item would change the graphic, or the model of the storage device in relation to how much is contained within it. Providing a visual que for players, on site, to see how much it contains. Much how the brewing vat fills up. These alterations in the model should be altered in intervales of the percentage of what's inside.

Here's an example of the second method.

A flour sack, used for holding flour should look like:
0% full, looks like an empty sack laying on the ground.
1-24%, it looks like it has a little lump in it.
25-49%, it looks have a larger lump in it.
50-74%, Looks like it's a little more than half full
75-99%, Looks really full
100%, it looks stuffed.

Now, you don't need to used one method or the other. Certain items could use the first method, others could use the second. One could even simply certain items to only change model when full, since I believe that is the minimal visual que required. But it's important, I think, to NOT allow these storage items to show the -Actual- number of items.

This is for 2 reasons, one, it's could to only show an illusion of how much is in the item, so you can place much more items in that place then really feasible, and not making it jarringly obvious. And 2, well, to be frank, certain storage sub buildings are going to need to hold more than others. Because, well, certain items players tend to get a lot of, and other items they tend to only get a few of.

Coal, for example. A coal storage sub building should hold lots and lots of coal. Because, at the moment, coal is not something that is used a lot. And players tend to always have so much of it. And if you don't allow the sub building to hold a lofty amount of the stuff, you run the danger of players having to create massive sections of storage simply to house there coal. Which could get pretty ridiculous depending how much items a storage sub building could hold.

However, with this system you could alter how much each storage sub building could hold on the fly, simply by changing properties. Which I can almost assure you will come in handy. Like, say if, Coal was suddenly used for cooking fish, suddenly making it a much more viable, and thus, less horded resource. Just a little dampener for head aches that could come up in the future if things need to be adjusted. Which they will.

This should allow for tweaking, allow you to find a nice marriage to allow storage rooms to not become to rediculously large to be effective, nor allowing for them to storage infinite items.
I don't quite like the idea of one storage room kind per resource, and unlimited storage for that resource.

I do like the idea of splitting it up a little, though, for example all food-related resources together, and all building materials together.
This could be done with buildings (specialized storage) instead of different rooms, though, but having different rooms could work too.

Having one room for wood, one for coal, one for iron, one for gold, one for bread, one for flour, etc, would just clutter the room building menu.
I am not that fond of that idea either. In a perfect world (which I am aiming for Dwelvers to be in soon enough Wink) I would like to see the player being able to control the storage rooms through some menu clicks (without adding to much micromanagement) so that specific resources can get stored at specific locations.

About the storage space, I think it is just a matter of maybe upgrading some of the storage buildings in the future.
(24-06-2015, 11:56 AM)Rasmus Wrote: About the storage space, I think it is just a matter of maybe upgrading some of the storage buildings in the future.

Some modern warehouses are pretty deep/high. Considering how deep we can dig, perhaps that could be an avenue for additional storage?
Yeah, and that would also be a nice transition into something that was brought up quite a while back about multi-level structures. It would be cool to be able to upgrade a storage shelf to have a second level to store stuff on just like racks in a warehouse.
I may have suggested this before I disappeared last year, as I was never really fond of linking rooms in general, and storage rooms in particular, but here it goes nonetheless:

What would happen if each room had the capability of building storing items?
Farms could build silos; cookery rooms already have barrels on a wall; the tavern could use the already existent grid-on-a-wall type of storage; blacksmiths should be able to build chests; etc.
Almost all of them should be able to build the tables, which should be cheap but inefficient, as they are bulky and should hold few items.
If there are no storing items built, resources would be gathered on the floor, at the flag, like it currently does.

When starting a game, most resources would be left lying on the floor until needed or some storing device is built on a specific room.

I haven't sorted out all the quirks of how it work, it's more of a brainstorm at this point. Perhaps this should be a separate thread? I won't be offended if this post is made it's own thread as to not diverge tho much the already ongoing discussion Wink
I think just leaving stuff on the floor could build up to causing performance issues, but it has been brought up several times about having storage buildings/shelves/chests or whatever in the production room. I think it would be cool to have a silo in the Farm Room or use those Wall Barrels to store beer, and while I don't hate the linking system I really wouldn't be disappointed to see it go.

Instead when the Imp assigned to the Bar Room needs to restock the table that they just went directly to the Cookery and grabbed Beer from the Wall Barrels or maybe a storage barrel with a tap that holds a certain quantity of Beer you would build, maybe a pantry you could grab Bread and Fish from. Of course as new items get added to the game it could get really cluttered.
Yea, storage rooms could potentially be removed or merged with trading posts, by allowing each building to store its own input and outputs via specialized holding items, much as with the wall barrels for beer.
I'm still with the idea to remove storage rooms and let rooms that manufacture something to have their own storages for manufactured products (as room widgets like now are Tables in Bar Rooms), you know some item doesn't like higher or lower temperature, some are really big and heavy some not, etc. so they shouldn't be all placed in one storage room of the same sizes. There was a discussion to make Weapon Racks for weapons which as Construction that could be placed anywhere you want in dungeon, so it's a good example of how "storages" could look in Dwelvers instead.

That may require to build rooms linked in chain production close to each other and we should then think about storages for those items which are being gathered from the outside of dungeon, non-manufactured. I see no reason to need more labor units just to transport items from one place to another if a worker in i.e. Metalworks Room could take what it need for production items straight from other room in which lays desirable item. Blue flags are really confusing, why just Imps couldn't place items on shelves/racks/barrels directly from which other Imps or creatures could take to their workplace?
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
If we have storage at each room then I feel that we would just have the same issue but messier because there would be storage rooms all over the place and give the player less control over the situation. Right now we can control the production of many rooms through the storage room instead of having to control each room one at a time.

I believe a lot of issues with the storage rooms could be solved by just giving the storage rooms more storage, but this should be done in a nice way so that we don't have 1000 items visually laying on a table or something like that.
(28-06-2015, 10:06 PM)Rasmus Wrote: I believe a lot of issues with the storage rooms could be solved by just giving the storage rooms more storage, but this should be done in a nice way so that we don't have 1000 items visually laying on a table or something like that.

Hmmm... perhaps the storage room will show a certain amount (visually) of the items and then the rest, can be stored in say.. a trap door underneath the storage room? Since we won't/can't dig underneath the rooms anyways, a cellar underneath the storage room for 'excess goods' would be a feasible/plausible reason/explanation.

If/when the items (that are visually expressed) are used up, the workers in that room can transfer them out of the cellars if needed.

The 'cellars' don't even need any special function done to them really, they're simply a placeholder for the excess items. Could say that each piece of furniture holds X amount of times and the workers will fill those spaces up first... so basically, the furniture determines how much can be displayed graphically in the room; all the rest goes into the cellar.

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