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Brainstorm Item Mechanic - Rethinking Food
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Goblin_Priest Offline
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Post: #1
Item Mechanic - Rethinking Food
I've been thinking about the food system, how it is in Dwelvers, how it was in DK, and different ways it could evolve.

I don't recall food in the original DK to be anything more than chickens, so I do like the extra dimensions brought by Dwelvers. Making flour, bread, beer: nice! Wink Having different consume different foods, also nice! Tongue I think it's a cool direction to go towards.

Here are a few ideas to expand upon the food mechanics. I posted on the steam forums as Drone Knight, btw, so some things I might have mentioned there.

Antroot: It would make more sense for it to be a mushroom, rather than a vegetable. This is just flavor, though, as plants require sunlight.

Mills: I don't really see a reason for these to be in the farms, I think they ought to be moved to the cookery. It's a transformation building as the oven and the beer vats, after all. Grinding flour manually sounds like a demanding job, we used to rely on animals for that. Perhaps piggehs could grind the mill quicker, or it'd require two imps to operate?

Fencing: I'm not fond of the whole areas being automatically fenced, and then having to place gates manually (especially since I have a hard time figuring out how they'll be placed when plopping them down). At least, not if there's no reason to want to keep creatures out. But what if there was one? What if fences were to keep our creatures out, to prevent them from going through the farmland, stepping on all the crops, and eating wastefully. There could be the option for 1) fenced and productive farmland that only imps can access, and 2) unfenced/gated farmland for subsistance farming/picking, that any creature can go feed themselves on directly, but with much lower productivity.

More "crops": Chickens! Well, namely, chickens (it could also be just about any other kind of meat source, preferably something small and helpless, for example guinea pigs could do). There could also be fish pools. These would all be options to build on farms. I could think of a number of other food sources (rats, tarantulas, worms, etc.), but I think that going overboard wouldn't be beneficial either, each needs to be unique in its uses, instead of just a dozen bland food sources that all act the same. New crops and foods would probably be best implemented as more creatures are implemented.

Food preferences: Orcs might prefer raw chicken, perhaps they even like a caged live chicken on their plate, but humans might have more refined tastes, and demand cooked meat. Maybe they even want surface crops, which can't be grown underground, and thus must be either traded or raided. Maybe rogues will satisfy themselves with raw fish, but knights would require cooked meats and fresh veggies from the surface. Maybe wizards need a special kind of mushroom/fungus to get... creative? Wink A more badass fighter might think beer is for the puny, and desire distilled spirits, maybe he even eats the flesh of defeated/sacrificed foes? Fish could be turned into smoked fish, salted fish, or sushis, perhaps, either for current creatures (maybe rogues eat salted fish?) or new ones. I view the food system much like I do the labor system, though: it should be able to have things working at least minimally with but the generalists (imps for labor, antroot for food), but a greater diversity of more specialized products for a truly efficient dungeon.

Crop needs: Having the staple food require nothing but surface and water is fine. Additional crops should be more complex, though. Perhaps, to rear fish in a pool, they need to be fed antroot? Perhaps, to raise livestock, they need warmth (either by burning wood, or by implementing geothermy: pipes that bring water to lava pools and thus fetch back steam). Some otherworldly crop might require coal or gold as fertilizer? Perhaps some can't be farmed at all by the player, and needs to be scavenged, for example by raiding a giant termite nest to bring back killed termites as food, or by collecting worms when digging out worm nests. Some of these might be renewable, some might not be, but the idea would be that it's impossible to just set up a farm for them somewhere. Perhaps pests of some kind that need to be warded off? Creatures that spawn, but don't attack the Dark Mother, but rather go after your food. Not sure how this would be best implemented, though. Gnomes digging out from below (or above) and snatching your antroot, forcing you to kill them with troops or to place traps in the farms, could potentially be funny. Could just be aggravating too, though, a good balance would be required. A spell to allow your crops to defend themselves, temporarily, would probably be required to prevent crop attacks to be too damaging and annoying. Handling a "gnome outbreak" could put new meat on the table for the badasses, though. Big Grin
(This post was last modified: 24-06-2015 06:42 PM by Sebt.)
24-06-2015 02:57 PM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #2
RE:
There are a lot of good ideas here, some of which have been brought up in other threads as a side thought, but it's a good idea this has its own topic. I think the general consensus is that there should be varying degrees of quality of foods, and different preferred meal sources depending on creature type. I totally agree that it makes more sense for the Mill to be in the Cookery, and sometimes I even build a 2 tile Farm next to my Cookery and out the Mill on it there.

The idea of having fish farms is a great idea, and really just being able to grow several different types of crops would be cool to do, and really wouldn't be that hard to implement. You could have a basic farm plot or have the different plots available when you right click to build as you do Antroot right now. If it was a basic plot, then perhaps you could swap what plots are used in the Information panel by clicking on an icon to set it active.

I doubt Antroot will ever be replaced as a crop, and there was a really long discussion way back when Wheat is what was grown in farms. Many suggested replacements like mushrooms and potatoes, but we ended up on Antroot. I think just adding some more types of crops like you mentioned would be better especially because I would miss the Elusive Floating Antroot. Also being able to grow different crops on the surface seems like a good idea.

Fencing is another one of those things that has come up before, and really I doubt this one will change either. Personally I don't have a problem with the way this works right now as most farms do have fencing to protect their crops. Adding a gate is really simple and they can be rotated if need be.
24-06-2015 04:19 PM
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Sebt Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Item Mechanic - Rethinking Food
(24-06-2015 04:19 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  I think just adding some more types of crops like you mentioned would be better especially because I would miss the Elusive Floating Antroot.

Oh yea, this is the most legendary bug after Water Bug I think, it's too much epic! Cool
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(This post was last modified: 24-06-2015 06:45 PM by Sebt.)
24-06-2015 06:45 PM
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Goblin_Priest Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Item Mechanic - Rethinking Food
Yea, I know some of these aspects are already mentionned elsewhere, but I thought it could be useful to gather them under a common theme.

As for antroot, is that an actual real thing? I've never heard of it, and google doesn't yield me anything, so I'm assuming it's made-up. I didn't mean to say it should be removed, rather just have the description changed from "root vegetable" to "underground mushroom". Keep all of the rest intact. Mushroom bread doesn't really seem any more farfetched than vegetable bread. Same name, some functions, same look, just a wee tweak on the description. Wink
24-06-2015 09:15 PM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #5
RE:
Antroot is totally made up, but I think it would be weird to call it a mushroom since it doesn't resemble mushrooms, and there again roots are underground so I guess using that logic Antroot doesn't make sense either since the harvested part appears above the ground in the farm plot.
24-06-2015 09:30 PM
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Goblin_Priest Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Item Mechanic - Rethinking Food
(24-06-2015 09:30 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  Antroot is totally made up, but I think it would be weird to call it a mushroom since it doesn't resemble mushrooms, and there again roots are underground so I guess using that logic Antroot doesn't make sense either since the harvested part appears above the ground in the farm plot.

To me, it doesn't resemble anything recognizable at all. Mushrooms come very diverse, though, and it looks more like a mushroom than a vegetable already, in my opinion.
25-06-2015 02:32 AM
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