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My New Idea Room Mechanics - Rooms and Interacting with them
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Necroscourge Offline

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Post: #1
Room Mechanics - Rooms and Interacting with them
So I have been playing the game over the last few days, enjoying how wicked hard the game currently is for DK players (Urge to expand like wild fire... rising!) and something I noticed is that your monsters work in various rooms much like aliens did in Startopia. But there are a few things that bother me such as the lack of variety in rooms, how progression simply stops at a point, and the speed of recruitment.

Here is a log of some ideas I have been bouncing around for Dwelvers, feel free to chip in where appropriate.

New Furniture - Mushroom Farm Plot
Much like the Antroot farm plots, workers use water to grow mushrooms that produce a mushroom cap (food) and a unit of wood. A renewable source of wood is extremely necessary, as there always becomes a point in every single play-through where I run out of wood without fail since surface tree digging is broken right now.

Bar Room:
New Furniture - Dinner Table
A 3 by 1 table with a large platter (filled as per normal bar tables) for situations with lot's of monsters, but not lots of food to spread over 20 tables.

New Furniture - Brew Cask
A barrel with spicket that creatures can satisfy their drink need from without the need of a table. Useful for creatures that can drink, but not eat. Attractive to Orcs

New Furniture - Dice Game
Impanzee's and Imps are masters of dice games, and will challenge your other creatures to games of luck and skill... heavily rigged against them. Orcs love playing dice, and love winning even more. Uses time to make creatures happier or sadder, attracts Orcs.

New Furniture - Furnace
This wall mounted oven is used to cook and bake large, complex things. Such as say, a whole human? Expensive item, +20% Piggeh gain?

New Furniture - Stewpot
Easy to and quick to make, tastes a lot like the river water used to cook it. Stew is generic, quickly produced gunk that will feed your populace... until real food becomes more readily available. Stewpots use a unit of water and a unit of any raw food to produce three units of stew over a minute. Monsters hate eating stew for too long and will demand better food eventually.

New Furniture - Feeding Cell
This is a segregated enclosure from the regular cell; only Piggehs and Workers dump spoiled and extra food through chutes to feed prisoners within. Why? To fatten them up for cooking of course! When prisoners are considered "Fat" they are leashed and brought to the Kitchen for processing.

Training Room:
New Furniture - Granite Boulder
This five hundred pound rock is used by strong creatures like Cyclotaurs and Orcs to train themselves.

New Furniture - Fight Mat
2x4 mat allows two creatures to fight each-other until either one chickens out or wins the fight. Creatures of course take damage in the process but receive better training than solitary methods. Weak creatures like rogues avoid this item like the plague while Orcs would live on this mat if it was not so bloody.

New Room Concepts:

Beasts Lair:
Creatures that don't require beds will go find a Beasts Lair to create a nest in. Simply having space is enough, no furniture is needed for the room to work on it's own. Incubators and other furniture can be added to specialize what monsters the room attracts most.

Furniture - Incubator
Workers use coal to power this machine. Each Incubator is set to a specific monster type, both attracting and producing that type. Note that "Civilized" monsters like orcs and fishmen are not incubated, stuff like Molves (Mole Wolves) and Killer Bats are.

A treasury, book depository, and den of scum and villainy wrapped into one. This room mainly facilitates rogues and their roguish behavior, and allows them to run a number of schemes and plots from their base here.

Furniture - Lockboxes
Gold, valuables, and other items that monsters want to be kept safer than their previous owners will want to file them at the Lockboxes. Rogues are generally happy to have items in lockboxes, since they can use this furniture to trade for other creatures locked away items without their consent.

Furniture - Intake Desk
Rogues and Imps work this counter. Monsters will hand them items, and the rogue runs over to a lockboxes to file it away. Alternatively he puts it on the side of the desk where another worker does that.

Furniture - Library Shelf Row
Creatures will read to sate their boredom if they are literate, can potentially be used for a research mechanic, as a training item, etc.

As a long time forum hopper; can we skip the five or six posts of "This game has a small team, don't suggest anything that would take work or effort" like every other indie game's community is trained to do to new idea givers? Let's focus on making the game better. I hope any of this helps Rasmus in coming up with new ideas!
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2015 11:21 AM by Sebt.)
03-11-2015 06:55 PM
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Rasmus Offline
Main developer of Dwelvers
Dwelvers Developers

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Post: #2
Some really interesting idea, I especially liked the boulder idea in the training room as it can be a cheap source of training with the downside that creatures sometimes get hurt using it.
I have added this list to my to do list, and I am sure some of the ideas will see the darkness in the game Tongue
04-11-2015 04:23 PM
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simrobert2001 Offline
Dungeon Lord

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Post: #3
FOr a balance issue, perhaps the mushroom plot could only produce one piece of wood? Otherwise, the antroot would be useless compared to the mushroom plot.

I like the brew cask, and dinner table ideas, though, i'm not sure how they could be implimented without making the other tables useless. Though, perhaps they should just be used for small spaces.

As for the stewpot, what would prevent us from ONLY using it to feed our minions? Unless we work it in with the current job, and allow it to include fish, or something.

Do you have an idea for items that can go into lockboxes? I would say treasures from raiding, but that comes later.

Not to say your ideas are bad, they are awesome, but I want to see how you imagine it working with everything else.
05-11-2015 08:35 PM
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Mello Tonin Offline
Guru O' Mello

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Post: #4
The antroot plot would still be needed for flour and beer, but having mushroom plots has been brought up before and could potentially be used as a wood source although I think it would be much better used as a food/reagent source and have the focus to claim the surface world for wood.

That was a really good idea about the Bar Room tables. I don't know if you noticed, but if you place square tables next to each other they form longer tables so instead of making a new construct, it would seem to be easier to code the game to see if 3 square tables are lined up forming a 3x1 table the food setting would change to match your suggestion.

There are some pretty good ideas there, and I think you'll find that you'll never hear "we don't want to implement this big idea because of a limited staff" here. There are many collections of ideas here which of course not every single one will enter the game, and you should consider that when a large amount of ideas (often similar ones) are strewn about in many different threads, it can be easy to lose track of them or when trying to reference them finding the right thread. Fortunately Rasmus keeps the best ones for the 'to do' list so they don't get lost.
06-11-2015 05:25 AM
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Anima_Solis Offline
Dungeon Lord

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Post: #5
Sorry to necro a thread like this, but I'm comin' in late to the party. The fight mat and the boulder training give a little more life to the training room that we didn't see in DK. Though, as it stands there are the archery posts (not that I see the Impanzee utilize them, just not implemented yet?)

I could see the use for long tables in confined spaces, hadn't thought to place tables together (though, to be fair, haven't needed to yet.) Having the game recognize a 3x1 would fit the bill, if it can be programmed in as such. The Brew Cask is another good idea, IMO, as it would free up some seating space (which I noted was only an issue in early game times.) My concern is that it adds another couple animations, not something Rasmus can't handle, just more moving parts (both in character and chain.) I remember reading somewhere that Rasmus wanted to add things for creatures to watch - dice game seems a good way to deal with happiness at least. Perhaps they gamble treasure they earn from killing and working?

As for the mushroom plot, I'd say not just a singular wood piece for planting a mushroom farm, but every 5-10 growths a "bonus" yield gives lumber as well? Renewable wood is definitely the way to go, even with the idea of chopping trees there's got to be a renewable source. Making it have bonus yields would be the way to do that, I feel.

Having just figured out how the jail works with feeding the DM, I'm wondering how creatures would react to humans as food. Especially human creatures to humans. I like that you've worked in the balance to stew by making them angry over time. Again, adds more life to the rooms, but I'm concerned how much bigger I'm gonna have to make my starting rooms haha.

What creatures don't utilize beds... or is that planned for a future update? Maybe the golems require "downtime" instead of sleep. Hmm. I feel like just expanding a bedroom would suffice for both these options in lieu of a new room and you could still plop down incubators.

I think of an archive as more a library, so maybe rename the room to... Something more rogue-esque? I do like the thought of them running the "banking" and such though. Library into a common room or the library itself? As for the rogue schemes of banking items/gold... Happiness drops immediately when things go "missing?"
20-03-2016 02:57 AM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #6
Yeah I would expect to see all ranged characters eventually use the wall targets, but we really only have the one ranged character at the moment. We had also discussed expanding it to allow creatures to train up to higher levels in an arena construction there, but I can't seem to find it.

Speaking of long tables, I use these so much in my builds so I figured I'd share one of my latest layouts.

[Image: 29nxY.jpg]

I've complained from time to time about "not being able to get wood" (dang'it SU I know you'd be good for a remark there), but really diggin down into the ground is the way to get past that. After diggin up .5 - .7% of the below-ground map I had over 2400 pieces so it's possible to sustain for some time. I mentioned the other day this kinda limits an unlimited play sandbox because of needing it to cook, and I'm sure we'll get a solution in place at some point.

Starting room sizes I always tend to go small with them to start until I figure what direction I want to go, and layout. Here's an example of how I start generally. The BBQ shows slow just because I haven't filled the dirt back in for mice to spawn, and I don't usually build a training room until I start expanding out. The rooms I start with will always be sold and placed elsewhere.

[Image: 29nAH.jpg]

So far only Flappy, Trogosaurs, and Peasants don't have beds. I'm sure Peasants will eventually get one, but the other 2 I'm not sure.
(This post was last modified: 20-03-2016 05:52 PM by Mello Tonin.)
20-03-2016 05:51 PM
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Anima_Solis Offline
Dungeon Lord

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Post: #7
If Flappy is the bats that constantly flutter about, I didn't even know those counted as our creatures! Haven't met a Trogosaur yet and while I've made many an excursion to the surface I haven't fed peasants to the DM yet. Seems I'm missing a couple units in my dungeon. Hmm.

I hear they've got a pill for that Tongue And yeah, even at 2400 with 50-75%, it does show there's a limit. Even with trading, nothing lasts forever. Endless mode mobs will eventually overrun your dungeon so don't bank on the bone trick to last for forever. And even then that's a lot of trading to get that one done.

I just figured they weren't programmed to utilize the targets yet is all, more important things to code/create. It's not hurting to not have them use it. But I also figured the arena was going to be it's own room, not necessarily attached to the training room. That's how I saw it in my mind at least. Creatures could watch fights there, increasing or decreasing happiness based on winners and losers, maybe bet some of their precious gold (that the rogues haven't sneaked away?)

As for your rooms starting out, I usually rock a 5x5 N/W/S/E of the DM. Standard DK opening haha. Adjust from there.
20-03-2016 07:54 PM
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