Feedback/Modification I & S - The Resource Bar
#16
(11-12-2017, 01:42 PM)Rasmus Wrote: 4. Not sure what you mean, I can't remember we having a feature that could customize items.


If you go to production menu and than click on certain resource, than click on any resource on upper resource bar you can replace it with that resource, so for example I can put there a flour which in normal means doesn't appear on upper resource bar. I wondered it that possibility of making your own custom bar with various resources added in favourite order by player - and that each time you generate a new game could be loaded from database.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#17
Ah, but this won't be necessary with the new resource bar as all items will fit.
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#18
Yea, I think it will be faster to just jump onto each resource tab to search for specific item. Even faster if we could have shortcuts for them implemented, like from F1-F8 buttons.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#19
Yeah perhaps, well I think we get the new resource bar implemented first and from there we can decide if it's needed.
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#20
Actually I agree with Sebt suggestion about having ability to make our own custom tab.

Yes splitting the resource icons into multiple tabs based on resource category is useful as it avoid that crowded resource bar we have now. But the problem with this design is that for most of the time you will be interested in stock information for resources from multiple categories at the same time like stock information for food and building materials.
So adding ability so that each player can customize one of these tabs would be great as each player could chose which resources stock information he would want to see basically all the time. And yes feel free to limit the max number of resources the player can monitor from that tab at the same time so that the tab won't become to crowded.

In my time I have played few games (cant remember their names now) that had similar feature and I must say that I really loved it and I wish that tons of more other games would also support such feature.
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#21
Ah ok, I think I misunderstood Sebt.

Yeah, having a custom tab for this purpose sounds great.
Perhaps right clicking on one of the items in the ordinary tabs and choosing to add this item to the custom tab.
Or perhaps being able to drag the items to the custom tab. I would probably say that dragging items would feel more natural, and in that way the player could also drag around the items to change the order of them in their own tab.
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#22
Yes and that's exactly how I imagined a custom resource bar like SilverWarior described. I think I should just call it "Favourites" instead of custom resource bar, like net browsers have ability to add your favourite bookmarks into the one category. Smile

I thought adding resources to custom bar could be even simpler, but that's just my suggestion:
1. Just go to custom/favourite resource tab (which you would see empty, completely black at the beginning) than click on it. There you could see a text like "Click here to add your favourite resources there" or "Click here to begin customizing your resource bar".

2. After clicking on this player will be able to click on any resource in any resource tab so one by one would be added to "favourites" immediately. Clicking on any resource would highlight it (so player would be sure he marked this resource). Clicking on that resource again would unmark that resource, so remove from custom bar.
Also 3 buttons would appear right under the resource tab: [Confirm][Cancel][Clear all] (that could be just icons of affirmation, cancellation and sweeper).

3. To finish resource bar customization do a left-click with mouse on somewhere on the map or click ESC button. Clicking on [Confirm] could also save the process.

Like Mello said earlier it would be excellent if we could have this configuration of items in "favourites" bar saved as file in AppData/Dwelvers folder - so like we can save level progress, we could save our custom bar as well and make it load automatically each time we create new game. Separate file for customized resource tab could also be made for campaign mode as well. Smile

EDIT: If we would like to clear the whole custom resource tab, than I suggest to have these 3 buttons from point 2. always visible, however instead of [Confirm] button there could be [Add] button, so each time player would like to add resource to "favourites" or to finish customizing it [Confirm] and [Add] could switch between themselves.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#23
(16-12-2017, 05:32 PM)Sebt Wrote: I thought adding resources to custom bar could be even simpler, but that's just my suggestion:
1. Just go to custom/favourite resource tab (which you would see empty, completely black at the beginning) than click on it. There you could see a text like "Click here to add your favourite resources there" or "Click here to begin customizing your resource bar".

2. After clicking on this player will be able to click on any resource in any resource tab so one by one would be added to "favourites" immediately. Clicking on any resource would highlight it (so player would be sure he marked this resource). Clicking on that resource again would unmark that resource, so remove from custom bar.
Also 3 buttons would appear right under the resource tab: [Confirm][Cancel][Clear all] (that could be just icons of affirmation, cancellation and sweeper).

That is way too complicated. Here is a simpler solution:

Adding resources to Favorites tab should be done simply by right clicking on resource in any standard resource tab. Of course game should first check to see if there is a free slot on Favorites tab. If it is the resource is added to first free slot on Favorites tab and the player is notified of how many free slots on the Favorites tab are still available.
Once the resource is added to Favorites tab it should be marked in a way so that you can quickly see if it is already on the Favorites tab or not. I suggest using a simple colored outline for this.

Removing resource from Favorites tab could be done by right clicking the resource again on any standard tab or clicking the remove button on Favorites tab.

For ordering resources I recommend adding ability to select each individual resources by clicking on it. This should then show three additional buttons (MoveLeft, Remove, MoveRight). So you would then use these buttons to change the order of the resources on the Favorites tab.

I would also add two more buttons on the Favorites tab. One for saving the Favorites tab layout and one for loading. This way you could save and later load multiple Favorites layouts easily. When saving the player should be able to chose the name for the layout.
This will become especially useful if mudding support is added to the game since you might want to have Favorites layout for unmoded and another Favorites layout for moded game.

As far as organizing the favorites bar using drag and drop functionality goes. Sure it can be easier for the player but it is much harder to implement. Not to mention that if the game gets ported to consoles at some time in the future drag and drop functionality will no longer be an option due to difference in how the game can be controlled on consoles.
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#24
I like the idea to add/remove resource by right mouse click. Only I wonder what if player accidentally right click on any resource? It's also good you've pointed out console users... so basing upon your suggestion I though we could modify it a little:

Adding resource to Favourites could be possible if we do i.e. SHIFT + Right Mouse Click - not just by Mouse Right Click to avoid adding/removing resource by mistake. Console players could than click on any other button that would just initiate the selection or click two buttons at once.

To organize resources we can go simpler and analogously like you proposed with adding/removing resources - just do SHIFT + Left Mouse Click to select resource in Favourites we want to move, than again just Left Click on any resource in Favourites to replace it's position with previously selected with SHIFT + Left Mouse Click combination. That would also make possible to replace any resource from full custom bar with any new resource taken from other resource bar. Console user again could use other button to make it possible like in case of adding/removing resource.

What do you think?

PS. Yeah, having sort of [Save][Load] buttons in Favourites could be a good idea, this way we could save our custom bar setting like we save/load game files.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#25
(23-12-2017, 05:38 PM)Sebt Wrote: I like the idea to add/remove resource by right mouse click. Only I wonder what if player accidentally right click on any resource?

Yes accidently right-clicking on resource could be a problem.
Sure we can solve this by adding the requirement to use modifier key (CTRL or SHIFT or ALT) but this way we are forcing players to use combination of both mouse and keyboard which might not be desired by all players.
So another approach could be that the player has to hold his right-click on the resource for let's say 2 seconds.

(23-12-2017, 05:38 PM)Sebt Wrote: PS. Yeah, having sort of [Save][Load] buttons in Favourites could be a good idea, this way we could save our custom bar setting like we save/load game files.

That was the idea :-)

EDIT: Since we are talking about redesigning the resource bar here is another feature that would be nice. And that is ability to quickly open the detail window for certain resource. Right now you need to open the detailed resource window and fin the proper resource to see information for it.
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#26
(24-12-2017, 05:14 PM)SilverWarior Wrote: So another approach could be that the player has to hold his right-click on the resource for let's say 2 seconds.

Sounds even better. Smile Than I though what if player would like to remove/add 4 resources at once? It would take at least 8 seconds to remove all of them, right?

I just thought maybe... and if we want also eliminate additional keyboard maybe let's cut mouse clicking to two times:
Right-click two times fast on resource (like we want to open a file in file manager) would remove it from or add it to custom resource bar.
Left-click two times fast would select resource to move. Right-click or left-click once would than do nothing.

(24-12-2017, 05:14 PM)SilverWarior Wrote: EDIT: Since we are talking about redesigning the resource bar here is another feature that would be nice. And that is ability to quickly open the detail window for certain resource. Right now you need to open the detailed resource window and fin the proper resource to see information for it.

I thought detailed info of resource (numbers only) could be displayed in tooltip just when you hover mouse over it on resource bar. There could be displayed current production per minute and - if applicable - what is it's production efficiency from 0-100% (which lower than 100% means that something is wrong with production chain that slows that resource production).

I think we don't need a history chart any more as well as any window for detailed info than. The goal of modifying resource bar was also to eliminate all possible windows.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#27
(25-12-2017, 02:24 PM)Sebt Wrote: Sounds even better. Smile Than I though what if player would like to remove/add 4 resources at once? It would take at least 8 seconds to remove all of them, right?

Well that is true. But how often do you think players would be making changes on Favorites tab? Probably not very often. So there is nothing wrong if this takes a bit more time.
In the mean time we can use double-clicking for some other functionality like opening details window for certain resource or perhaps quickly pausing and resuming certain resource production.

(25-12-2017, 02:24 PM)Sebt Wrote: There could be displayed current production per minute and - if applicable - what is it's production efficiency from 0-100% (which lower than 100% means that something is wrong with production chain that slows that resource production).

I think we don't need a history chart any more as well as any window for detailed info than. The goal of modifying resource bar was also to eliminate all possible windows.

History charts can be very helpful because they allow you to monitor your production or stock levels through time and therefore predict future production/stock problems you might encounter even before they happen. There is a good reason why economists love using charts.

As for production efficiency goes. Many things can affect the production efficiency. Some are good and some are bad.
For instance let's say your food production is greater than your food consumption which is good. If this continue you will eventually reach a point when you will run out of free space to store more food. This will result in food productivity to drop but isn't really a bad thing.
But in another instance your food productivity might not be the best because you can't process the food fast enough (milling the flour or baking bread). And that is bad. But how will you know that this is bad?
If you go and check each individual production facility you will see that all of them are at 100 efficiency so you still might think that everything is OK. But with graphs you can simply check the stock history for each resource in food production change and if stocks of any of the raw or intermediary resource is constantly growing then you have clear idea that you are not processing that resource as fast as you could. So you know what needs to be upgraded first.
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