Brainstorm Resource & Goods Mechanics - Resources and Production Chain topic
#1
On Reddit Rasmus mentioned how the Production Chain is going to look like in game and what resources do we need to make something etc. This is how it looks now:

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I would like to start this topic about: what do You people think about Production Chain presented above and what maybe would You want to see in the game if it comes to resources kinds and what we could do with them?

Maybe someone would came with idea for a new gathering system of a resource (we have e.g Diging Walls, Fishing atm) or half-finished product (Iron Ingot) or final product (Crystal Armor) , a new resource usage, something that could replace existing one or more resources that would better fit the game or it would be unique. Maybe someone could bring the idea of an special animation (like unique and funny is the fishing) etc.

I hope maybe it would help making few things faster that would just be fully or in part implemented. That would save a lot of time I think too. I see there are lot of (too many?) similarities to Minecraft, but I understand that is an early version of the game. Wink

Since I' writing about that, I would like to present my suggestions if it comes to resources and their using:

--Rock:
* has no using atm, I though about using them in a bigger amount to make for example stone bridge (stone temples in later game etc.) where each tile cost 5x rocks - so we could use all rocks and save storage room space.
or to make room pavements where every tile will cost 1 rock - that wouldn't be a problem because mainly when we dug out a rocks for room we would have the same amount of rocks as room tiles we need for placing a room in dug place before.

--Upgrades and new resources:
* during the game if we find a new rare/uncommon resource (like Ebon in Skyrim or something) we could make upgrades of our weapons and armor. If we have room upgrades that has to be invented, researched etc. in earlier stage of play we could set a new kind of crafting mechanism in the same room.
I'm strongly opposite to make better things so we have many useless things after upgrades so:
We could unlock (by researching for example) another craft-mechanism that would still need something that produce for us basic, but weaker/less efficient armor/final product and we would need the another less common resource (that could have it's unique, invented by us name) for making it. We could make better/more efficient armors/final product, but if we will be run of these rare resource we still could produce weaker weapons that need more common resources... and we still have new machines to producing better armors, traps, doors, rooms etc. in case of finding needed rare resource again.

As more we would need strange/not common using things as we have gameplay more oryginal, rare and esoteric. 8-)
...but of course don't exaggerate, like it is liquid metal like here Big Grin
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But imagine that strange resources could bring us to strange places, creatures etc. Underworld is life... :o
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#2
didn't read it all right now as i have to nip out (will read later) but in relation to a use for dirt i was thinking filling in lava/water, a couple times now (due to bad planning) i've come to make a chamber only to find one of these in the middle of it
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#3
Ascdren Wrote:in relation to a use for dirt i was thinking filling in lava/water, a couple times now (due to bad planning) i've come to make a chamber only to find one of these in the middle of it

I think being able to fill this stuff in would be cool since we can already replace wall tiles, genius! Since rocks aren't serving much purpose at the moment I think they could be useful in filling lava if that is decided because dirt by itself doesn't feel right in that scenario although lava can consume both in reality so that may be too far fetched.
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#4
yea, i meant rocks, don't know why i said dirt.....
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#5
Rocks and dirt could also be needed to build a new wall. This would make sense as the walls are essentially made of dirt and rock anyways.

@Sebt: I love the way you put together that resource tree, that must have taken a fair bit of time, along with that long explanation.
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The Golden One!
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#6
Seriously Unserious Wrote:Rocks and dirt could also be needed to build a new wall. This would make sense as the walls are essentially made of dirt and rock anyways.

@Sebt: I love the way you put together that resource tree, that must have taken a fair bit of time, along with that long explanation.

Rasmus made this resource tree Tongue

Building new walls is an interesting idea.

If EVERYTHING would be usable, resources, crafting-machines, units etc. through the whole play that would be really fantastic, in any way of using them. Smile
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#7
Building new walls is already added as of alpha0.4. You only need an imp to have claimed the tile(s) you want to build the wall(s) on.
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The Golden One!
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#8
Cool resource tree Sebt, how did you know in such detail that it was exactly that I had in mind Wink

Rocks are mostly used for building walls and buildings. Later on I could use it to double reinforce some walls, or maybe build roads that the creatures can transport goods faster on Smile
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#9
are you planning on including any sort of stone gollems or earth elementals? If so, stone could be used in making them as well.
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The Golden One!
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#10
Rasmus Wrote:Cool resource tree Sebt, how did you know in such detail that it was exactly that I had in mind Wink
Internet is more and more powerful ... :geek:

So upgrades will be only for walls?
If it comes to routes, we have better things - pipes Big Grin

Too much micro management would be problematic when it comes to fight or faster gameplay. Especially enemy should not known our position, so too much 'marks' would trait our position easily (if it comes to roads for example). Wink
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#11
Quote:Too much micro management would be problematic when it comes to fight or faster gameplay. Especially enemy should not known our position, so too much 'marks' would trait our position easily (if it comes to roads for example). Wink
Ooh, true. Sounds like the difference between, say, Pharoah or Caesar III and a Dwarf Fortress game.

Roads would be quite useful, but only INSIDE your dungeon, (Carpeting too. Tongue Plush. ^.^ ) where nobody would see. I am still holding my hopes out for a secret door, (Or a variety of them.) that enemies would just walk right by.

In terms of pipes and hydraulics, I think it would be very interesting if enemies could actually see them on the ground, though not in the walls. We'd be able to see them in the walls if the device they are connected to is destroyed, and the hydraulics next to it doesn't necessarily instantly and magically change direction to become a | pipe instead of a T-junction, if that makes any sense. So the end would be exposed, and you'd know there are hydraulics there.

Unless you could "paint" them (Or lay down a camouflaged variety that's a bit more expensive to lay) that enemies couldn't see, so traps can be much less inhibited.

But I am daydreaming.
"Go, go, Potato!" ~Mello Tonin
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#12
Quote:But I am daydreaming.
If you are daydreaming, and coming up with good ideas, then dream on... Wink
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#13
Hmm interesting tree. Here is some brainstorming of me:

As was said before carpeting and flooring would be a useful feature.
Maybe a sculptor for everything stone related. This may be implemented with the wall building somehow.

Regarding the farming, maybe add more varieties like a cotton plant to create wool for cloths and carpets etc. Maybe some other plants you can gain by finding seeds (on the surface or by trading?) or some exotic plants which grow underground. And/or have a seed count added for all plants!?Wink
Or you can add some vegetables which certain animals specifically eat.

It might also be possible to add a fish tank or something to store and breed the fish you caught.
Chickens can give eggs/meat;
Cows can give milk which in turn can give cheese.

As for minerals which can be mined;
-This might be a subcategory of crystals:
I don't know if some kind of trading will be added later on? (for example, when you reached the surface or created some teleport system). If it will be added, jewels (magical or normal) will be wanted in terms of value. These might be cut and added in armor or something to increase value/ability. Or for elemental traps or somethingTongue They can also used for making glass. So a jewel processor would be needed.
-Fossils! Because why notTongue It would be super rare and you can display your findings. Or they might be used, once complete, to resurrect/enable an ancient species to fight by your side.
-Phosphorus is a lightstoring and -emitting material which is also very flammableWink

-Dirt could be used in combination with water to create mud which might add pots(sculptor?)/fertile ground etc. Pots can be used in combination with rope to transport water vertically?Tongue
-Lava and water could create steam which might be used for several things.
-Will there be water gates or boats/rafts?

Okay sorry I could go on foreverTongue I restricted myself to some realism and didn't even start on 'magical things'.
These are just some things which pop up in my mind!
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#14
Soo much to take in. I have no suggestions yet; basically I'm a noob but I can see what is being planned and it's hard to comment before I play the actual next release (with all the new changes). It just looks great! But my main interest in changes implemented will be to do with replay-ability and the longevity of Dwelvers. So I'll just be enjoying the game and its flavour for now until my opinion becomes useful. All hail Rasmus!
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#15
Well, wool and rope and such could be created from a cheep farm, because I was thinking about having cow farms and such.

Hmm, the list I made a while ago still applies to the game, I have no reason to abandon it. But as the list shows I've only started to scratch its surface at the moment. I will have bread included in the next version, and with that the longest chain so far.. (Water -> Antroots + Water -> Flour -> Flour + Water -> Bread)

You have a lot of interesting ideas Mastergoose, but I will have to keep it on hold a little, many of the ideas can't be implemented until a couple of months, and the circumstances can be a little bit different then. So it is hard to say..

But I did like the fossil/bone mining. As bones are a resource I would like to have for potion making, they could both come from killed enemies as well as fossils. Maybe the fossil bones makes stronger potions Wink
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