Feedback/Modification Mix - Notes from playthrough
#1
Hello Everyone, just had myself a nice hour of playthrough of the 0.5 version. Here are some thoughts that crossed me while playing.

*If the game is to have steam pluming as a game mechanic it should be more narratively anchored. The steam could be created by having imps pouring water into a furnace.

*The meny in the bottom of the screen have a toggle function, but for now the functionality is:
- left click to open menu
- right click to close it.
- esc also closes the opened menu.
It should work with both buttons if a menu is already opened to avoid confusion and, frustration.

*The right click menu's(the circle menu) components should have an hover-fuction where as when the user hover with the mouse over an component long enough it should automaticly select it(same function as left click has).

*Add camera movement functionality to the arrowkeys, preferly the same as the WASD-keys.

*When rightclicking inside a room there is a room-specific component. This component should be color coded to show its importance and to guide the user to it(maybe the red border around the room picture could be green?)

*The pictures in the building menu should be empty rooms, to stress the fact that the user has to build the things inside it manually.

*The rotation with the Q and E-buttons should rotate around the hands position instead of the cameras position.

*The tilting should also use the hands position instead of the cameras.

*The user needs to know the storage capacity of a table in the storage room. Also, will these tables be different from eachother in capacity or costs? Maybe even have a free "bad" table which are upgradeable with some cost to it.

*In fullscreen(I don't know if it is like that in windowed) the windows-mouse isn't hidden.

*The thorn that gives the user wood needs to be redesigned, as of now it has yellow/gold in it which may indicate/trick the user into thinking it is gold. Roots of trees is a great idea to have instead of thorns. Just
think of the colorcoding to make it easy to the user to understand what is being dug out.

*To make it easier for the user to play the resource management-game the storage room should indicate its total capacity in any way. This could be done if hovered above the storage room or use of imps putting up signs on the tables when full of materials.

*The cost of a minion should be displayed directly in the minions menu and not when hovered over the picture. This minion menu needs to be redesigned since it was made when there were fewer types of materials.

*If the user cannot afford a minion due to lack of materials, the picture should be outgrayed or in other ways telling the player it cannot be bought. This can also be conveyed due to room restictions.

*The barstools placement needs a bit of work. It needs a better way to convey to the user that it can only be placed upon tables. This could be shown in a manner of color coding, maybe green/red tinting of the floor and tables in the room.

*The floor tile is not tiling well in both X and Y.

*The rally-flag is not working properly. When put down it gives dwarfs a new order to walk to the flag while having their previous order aswell. This makes the dwarfs standing still trying to do both orders at the same time. This is true both for orders "go to bar and drink" and "does nothing".

*Some sounds by the dwarfs during a fight would make it even more swell!

*Having two sets of numbers on items in the items menu is confusing for the users, especially when it's never conveyed what they represent. What does each of them represent? It's unclear for me.

*If you hover over a tile in the fog of war you can see what's there thanks to the text in the top of the screen telling whats at that tile. This function should be off when hovering over fog of war.

*Do not let the thorns grow out again, it sure was painful to maintain paths for the imps and dwarfs.

*The level design needs to be retdesigned to make it more challenging. You also need to add more "risk and reward" to give the user incitament to acctually move out of the comfortzone that is called home.

*Enemy healthbars are visable through fog of war. this is true if the enemy has been engaged, their healthbar became visable and then running away into the fog of war.

*Somehow I got "-1" in the minion menu, could have been when dwarfs got killed.

*I dont know if I like the misschance when minions fight.

*Fog of war is totaly squared if it is above water and the adjacent tile is visable. This could be smoothed out.

*Will you be able to pick up and drop minions?

*Will the possess-spell work for minions not being imps?

*After possessing a creature the user should automaticly be in "mining pick"-mode instead of possess-mode.

*It should be the dwarfs who use the blacksmith instead of the imps.

*I've noticed alot minions "doing nothing" and standing completely still. Instead these should explore your domain. It really breaks the immersion by having 10 imps standing in adjacent tiles doing nothing.

*The thought-bubbles that minions now have are to detailed. The bubbles should instead be colorcoded to categorys which are easier for the user to understand. Here are a few examples:
Green = Digging/Carrying to the storageroom
Yellow = feeding the brood mother
Red = Unhappy thoughts
Purle = Leasury/pleasure thoughts
White = social interactions with other minions

*You can only build 1 tile of bridge at a time now. When building one it deselects the buildmode and you have to reselect it to build another tile.

*Dwarfs scouting gives no vision in fog of war while in water?

*I think the core of the game should be immersion, and this immersion can get even better if the imps are slowed down to about 60-70 % fysical running speed as of now, and also add a delay of 0.5-1 second before going to a new order to simulate thinking behavior. This will give the imps more personality.

*Generate new level doesn't reset the cameras position to the brood mother.


Over and out!
/Gustav
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#2
Wow, that was a lot of suggestions, I will have to wait with answering them all when I got some more time on my hands Smile Hopefully tonight!
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#3
Quote:*You can only build 1 tile of bridge at a time now. When building one it deselects the buildmode and you have to reselect it to build another tile.
What? Eh? I was able to click-drag it across a single row of water. Worked fine. Maybe I'm hallucinating.

Quote:*If the game is to have steam pluming as a game mechanic it should be more narratively anchored. The steam could be created by having imps pouring water into a furnace.
True. It needs to start from somewhat, and needs to be supplied by water. If there's no water nearby, it needs water from a well to power it. If there's water nearby, a pumping station can be set into motion via magical perpetual motion. An internal water-wheel would do it easily enough.
  • With water - That water wheel would provide an infinite amount of uses to the hydraulic system.
  • No water - The whole connected system would require water from a well to use, and the larger the system, the more water it would use up with each use. Possibly. I think this isn't true, to be honest. Hydraulics don't really tend to leak water once it's in there. I mean either way, an Imp is doing something to power the closed system.

Quote:*The right click menu's(the circle menu) components should have an hover-fuction where as when the user hover with the mouse over an component long enough it should automaticly select it(same function as left click has).
Not sure about this one. What it REALLY needs is a way to tell how many resources each square of room needs, and a description of it. But if there's a little box down below that pops up with the right click menu that does all that, then that would work too. Though I would think that most people would be faster just to click on the circle through familiarity of its location on the circle rather than being too lazy to click a second time, but having to wait slightly longer for it to click automatically.

Quote:*Add camera movement functionality to the arrowkeys, preferly the same as the WASD-keys.
I really like Dungeon Keeper's camera layout. The Ctrl key did a lot for the camera. Ctrl-{up/down} tilted the camera, and Ctrl-{left/right} rotated it. The Shift key and an arrow key moved the camera faster. PageUp and PageDown can still zoom the camera. But at that point, controls are still configurable anyway, so there's lots of options.

Quote:*When rightclicking inside a room there is a room-specific component. This component should be color coded to show its importance and to guide the user to it(maybe the red border around the room picture could be green?)
This one is definitely interesting. The right-click circle menu is very important. Note that when the cursor opens it above a room, the circle only has one extra circle, which is the room-specific one. But that circle is treated just like any other circle, even though it's locational. This seems a bit odd, and out of place. In theory, that room-specific circle could actually be exactly in the middle of the right-click circle menu due to it being specific to the location where the right-click circle was actually opened. That would make the most sense. That way they could just right-click, and then instantly left-click again and be looking at the options for that room. It wouldn't even need color-coding or anything.

Quote:*The pictures in the building menu should be empty rooms, to stress the fact that the user has to build the things inside it manually.
Another interesting thought, but this concern is ameliorated by the fact that when the room is built, (any room, actually.) it's empty anyway. If every single room is empty, that leads to the notion that "Hm, maybe I have to fill it." It's only a thought that people would ever have once in their lives.

If anything, even more important, is that the rooms never ever get confused with one another. Visually, locationally, ... anything. I don't think that's currently a problem though. But it might get problematic once many more rooms are introduced. The circle may get crowded.

Quote:*The rotation with the Q and E-buttons should rotate around the hands position instead of the cameras position.

*The tilting should also use the hands position instead of the cameras.
Haha, Yes, Yes. Definitely. I was so surprised and disoriented by the current method of camera rotation. Fun, but dizzying.

Quote:*The user needs to know the storage capacity of a table in the storage room. Also, will these tables be different from eachother in capacity or costs? Maybe even have a free "bad" table which are upgradeable with some cost to it.
Yeah, this was actually a pretty big thinker for me too. Essentially, the hover-tooltip information really needs to be changed. I'm not at all interesting about what little resources are left lying on the ground. I can likely recognize them by now. But those tables need a storage capacity meter.

In fact, it would also be good to know which tables can be "walked around." Everyone will want to maximize their storage capacity, but not want to stymie their own imps from actually reaching the tables. Tongue They're slightly short, after all. Wouldn't want to just literally fill the whole floor with square tables and then find out the hard way that imps can't even walk into the room because it's 100% table. That's awesome.
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#4
Good stuff there; that deserves a point for effort.

I think the capacity on the storage room shelves are 20 per item. Not quite sure how many items can stack yet. Going back to the key mapping topic, I think having 2 options per action wouldn't be a bad idea which is common to many games.
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#5
Quote:*If the game is to have steam pluming as a game mechanic it should be more narratively anchored. The steam could be created by having imps pouring water into a furnace.
Well, I'm not thinking of it as steam plumbing, more like pressure. If a creature steps on the pressurepad, the pressure runs through the hydraulics to the traps and so on.. It would be an nice touch to have the hydraulics steaming and stuff. But I think it would require to much micro management out of the player..

Quote:*The meny in the bottom of the screen have a toggle function, but for now the functionality is:
- left click to open menu
- right click to close it.
- esc also closes the opened menu.
It should work with both buttons if a menu is already opened to avoid confusion and, frustration.
I will do it so that the player can close the big menus by left-clicking outside the menu frame.

Quote:*The right click menu's(the circle menu) components should have an hover-fuction where as when the user hover with the mouse over an component long enough it should automaticly select it(same function as left click has).
I don't agree with this one. As ShadowTiger said "I would think that most people would be faster just to click on the circle through familiarity of its location on the circle rather than being too lazy to click a second time, but having to wait slightly longer for it to click automatically".

Quote:*Add camera movement functionality to the arrowkeys, preferly the same as the WASD-keys.
This can be changed in options/key..

Quote:*When rightclicking inside a room there is a room-specific component. This component should be color coded to show its importance and to guide the user to it(maybe the red border around the room picture could be green?)
Hmmm. I will have the room that is selected lighted up a bit, or showing a border around it so that it is easier to see that it is selected. I like what ShadowTiger said about having the "room icon" in the centre instead of being mixed in with the other buttons.

Quote:*The pictures in the building menu should be empty rooms, to stress the fact that the user has to build the things inside it manually.
Well, it is hard to show a picture of a empty room and at the same time show what kind of room it is. As the build menu only have empty rooms inside it, I am expecting the player to understand what that menu does after using it a couple of times.

Quote:*The rotation with the Q and E-buttons should rotate around the hands position instead of the cameras position.
Interesting, I will try it out.. Maybe add it as an option for the player at the menu. Personally I have trouble with cameras that rotates around a specific point, but I know that others may find it easier.

Quote:*The tilting should also use the hands position instead of the cameras.
This one I agree on Smile

Quote:*The user needs to know the storage capacity of a table in the storage room. Also, will these tables be different from eachother in capacity or costs? Maybe even have a free "bad" table which are upgradeable with some cost to it.
I'm planning to add this.

Quote:*In fullscreen(I don't know if it is like that in windowed) the windows-mouse isn't hidden.
The windows cursor will be removed eventually.

Quote:*The thorn that gives the user wood needs to be redesigned, as of now it has yellow/gold in it which may indicate/trick the user into thinking it is gold. Roots of trees is a great idea to have instead of thorns. Just
think of the colorcoding to make it easy to the user to understand what is being dug out.
We will redesign the roots.

Quote:*To make it easier for the user to play the resource management-game the storage room should indicate its total capacity in any way. This could be done if hovered above the storage room or use of imps putting up signs on the tables when full of materials.
This is also planned.

Quote:*The cost of a minion should be displayed directly in the minions menu and not when hovered over the picture. This minion menu needs to be redesigned since it was made when there were fewer types of materials.
The menus will be redesigned, we have been thinking about combining the items menu with the creature menu to make it easier for the player to have full control over the resources.

Quote:*If the user cannot afford a minion due to lack of materials, the picture should be outgrayed or in other ways telling the player it cannot be bought. This can also be conveyed due to room restictions.
I don't agree with this one.. Maybe the player would like to have a queue on producing specific creatures, when the production is fully functioning there is no reason for the player to have to go back and forth between the menus. I could make the creature in a specific colour when it is a lack of resources, but I don't want to disable him.

Quote:*The barstools placement needs a bit of work. It needs a better way to convey to the user that it can only be placed upon tables. This could be shown in a manner of color coding, maybe green/red tinting of the floor and tables in the room.
I agree, hmmm.. Maybe I could have some kind of a colour or mark where things can be built to make it easier for the player. I like this idea Big Grin

Quote:*The floor tile is not tiling well in both X and Y.
Not sure what you mean, could you elaborate Smile

Quote:*The rally-flag is not working properly. When put down it gives dwarfs a new order to walk to the flag while having their previous order aswell. This makes the dwarfs standing still trying to do both orders at the same time. This is true both for orders "go to bar and drink" and "does nothing".
Hehe, yeah.. It will be fixed. I did so that when the Dwarfs enter the rally flag region they get to be free to do whatever they want for 5 seconds before returning to the rally flag region again. This is so that they all don't clump together.

Quote:*Some sounds by the dwarfs during a fight would make it even more swell!
Good idea, will be fixed!

Quote:*Having two sets of numbers on items in the items menu is confusing for the users, especially when it's never conveyed what they represent. What does each of them represent? It's unclear for me.
It is a remnant from the previous version when they represented how many items the Dark Mother was feed with. It will be removed as redesign the menus.

Quote:*If you hover over a tile in the fog of war you can see what's there thanks to the text in the top of the screen telling whats at that tile. This function should be off when hovering over fog of war.
Will be fixed, with the ability to see the digging area in the fog.

Quote:*Do not let the thorns grow out again, it sure was painful to maintain paths for the imps and dwarfs.
They sure can be annoying. I like that they can grow, but I need to limit it somehow..

Quote:*The level design needs to be retdesigned to make it more challenging. You also need to add more "risk and reward" to give the user incitament to acctually move out of the comfortzone that is called home.
The map is currently just randomly generated in the simplest way possible. I'm planning on having treasure chest and other rewards spread out in the more "risky" parts of the dungeon.

Quote:*Enemy healthbars are visable through fog of war. this is true if the enemy has been engaged, their healthbar became visable and then running away into the fog of war.
Didn't know that.. I will fix it..

Quote:*Somehow I got "-1" in the minion menu, could have been when dwarfs got killed.
You are probably right on that one, will be fixed!

Quote:*I dont know if I like the misschance when minions fight.
Maybe I can add avoid animations to the creatures to make it more obvious.

Quote:*Fog of war is totaly squared if it is above water and the adjacent tile is visable. This could be smoothed out.
Will be fixed..

Quote:*Will you be able to pick up and drop minions?
I want to avoid it, I don't want the player to have any direct control over the creatures.

Quote:*Will the possess-spell work for minions not being imps?
Yes, and the player should be able to do all the things that the creature can do.

Quote:*After possessing a creature the user should automaticly be in "mining pick"-mode instead of possess-mode.
You mean being able to control the mind instead of just taking over their vision? I can do that Smile

Quote:*It should be the dwarfs who use the blacksmith instead of the imps.
Very true, I was thinking that the Dwarfs could use it as well.. The imps should be able to do everything, but the other creatures should be able to help with certain jobs.

Quote:*I've noticed alot minions "doing nothing" and standing completely still. Instead these should explore your domain. It really breaks the immersion by having 10 imps standing in adjacent tiles doing nothing.
Will be fixed.

Quote:*The thought-bubbles that minions now have are to detailed. The bubbles should instead be colorcoded to categorys which are easier for the user to understand. Here are a few examples:
Green = Digging/Carrying to the storageroom
Yellow = feeding the brood mother
Red = Unhappy thoughts
Purle = Leasury/pleasure thoughts
White = social interactions with other minions
I will experiment with this, it is a good idea Smile

Quote:*You can only build 1 tile of bridge at a time now. When building one it deselects the buildmode and you have to reselect it to build another tile.
It depends on what direction you build in, the computer tries to build it from x-start to x-end and then y-start to y-end. If there are now adjacent tile that you own during the building it will not build it. Will be fixed!

Quote:*Dwarfs scouting gives no vision in fog of war while in water?
Not familiar with that, will check it out..

Quote:*I think the core of the game should be immersion, and this immersion can get even better if the imps are slowed down to about 60-70 % fysical running speed as of now, and also add a delay of 0.5-1 second before going to a new order to simulate thinking behavior. This will give the imps more personality.
It will also be less demanding for the computer to prioritise between the jobs Wink

Quote:*Generate new level doesn't reset the cameras position to the brood mother.
Very true, will be fixed with the ability to rightclick on rooms in the menu to quickscroll to them.

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions, and for reporting the bugs Big Grin

Btw. she is not "The Brood Mother", she is "The Dark Mother" Wink
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#6
Eeee.. if it comes to camera rotating panning I thought about just doing it by one thing:
Press and hold down the CTRL button to lock mouse in one point, then by moving mouse up/down You would change a view vertically and by moving mouse right/left horizontally. Very simple and You can set the camera view as You want, like You can in most graphic/project making programs. Don't need any more than one button.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#7
Hmm, does everybody know that holding down the middle mouse button enables the camera rotation? I'm not sure if I've brought that up..
The issue here was that the camera is currently rotating around its own axis and not around the pointers axis.
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