Brainstorm Environment Mechanic - Music references
#16
Welcome to the forum Omri, I upgraded your user group into a part of Dwelvers Dev Team Wink

I can honestly say that I have really loved the music you have produced so far, and I think many people agree with me. The music produced until now will probably be in the neutral zone and will be the beginning music, and as the player advance it will go more evil. So for future references we will probably go for something more and more evil, so be prepared to bring forth heavy metal in you Wink
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#17
Ohhh heavy..so we talkin some Apothecary?
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#18
Oh I love music from Blizzard's composers, also for Weswood studios and Dune series games the music fit all themes very nicely.

Music in Diablo was amazing, when you're listening to it what you can imagine? The freakin underground cold, dangerous, mesterious place, where the strongest smell is a death smell, rats, unholy powers, awesome.. +1 for that DAW. Smile


Well, Omri welcome to community! Big Grin
I'm actually a music composer too since 2006, (also a DJ), but more for short videos and only electronic, but had to sell my music stuff two years sgo, oh well, hope I'll return to making music, it's so great to make your own music.

I hope you've had a chance to play any evil games and Dwelvers too, so you would know what do we mean by evil. However actual themes would fit quite really well Good side and surface world. It's more fantasy game, evil, black humour, however world of Dwelvers contains, many beautiful places to see, I'm sure the surface will contain many of them also. I also encourage to check our community videos in this thread if you haven't time for this yet. Wink
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#19
@OmriLahav: Welcome to the forum! Cool

I agree with Sebt, as we have music themes in levels of evil, we should also have music themes in parallel levels of good, so we also know if we're losing the game to good. IE good levels 1 through 5 and a neutral level Evil level 0(?) for with neither side's winning.
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#20
I wonder if in game such a Dwelvers the music shouldn't be on the first plan? maybe if any places would have their unique sounds, so be like an additional instruments for music, the whole sounds side would play very nicely connected together.

In Settlers VI you can hear whole your town, everything has it's own sounds, which is very cool, when you go to unknown place you could hear only their environmental sounds, their dwellers living there and the delicate background music, but it's more quiet than your Dungeon which built a little tension, ambient.

Imagine that you're digging some tunnels and suddenly you hear an appaling roar behind the walls... tschh, wait a minute... C-Cyclotaurs are there..
or
Imagine you're on the surface and you're walking through the forest, suddenly you can hear a tree that wind blow strongly, so you can hear a somehow scary sound, then sometimes something could move somewhere... it's enemy, animal or it's just me?...

The music if would not bother in listening to different sounds we could built a nice tension in game. Some objects would be really loud, some very quiet. The examples that I've linked are just to show what for me evil music is, the example of warcraft music or diablo music is this which shows that not music, but sounds plays the biggest role in game (listen do dark elves theme where you can hear forest or water or in diablo terrible noises of damned demons or in Dungeon Keeper - in the music!). Some sounds could just appear randomly like in Minecraft, that would fit the place you are now.

ATM music is a little too much leading, but everything can be changed, less settlers, glorious and high music, but with some silence and than punchy drums, orchestra that instead of playing continuously will play from time to time in short times, anyway,.. a music built from single sounds, sounds of Dungeon naturę, environment, song of the caves... not as a one big composition, not as a music to listen, but to built a climate, tension, action for play. Smile
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#21
Those are all vary valid points.

Another way to achieve this, and probably much simpler, would be to have the music have natural low points, where it gets very quiet for a while, then builds up into a crescendo, or have most of the ambient music be quiet, in terms of volume, but with other louder music that interrupts the background music whenever something important is happening, such as a battle, or a first discovery of something, such as your first underground pool, your first entrance to the surface world, or your first sighting of a new enemy or rival.
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#22
(22-01-2014, 01:29 PM)Rasmus Wrote: Welcome to the forum Omri, I upgraded your user group into a part of Dwelvers Dev Team Wink

I can honestly say that I have really loved the music you have produced so far, and I think many people agree with me. The music produced until now will probably be in the neutral zone and will be the beginning music, and as the player advance it will go more evil. So for future references we will probably go for something more and more evil, so be prepared to bring forth heavy metal in you Wink

Thanks Rasmus!
Heavy metal will be fine - me and the project's drummer specialize in orchestral-metal combinations...
I don't know if you're aware but other than compose for games, I play guitar for a living (been at it for almost 20 years now), so I'd love a chance to include that in the score Smile

(22-01-2014, 09:46 PM)Sebt Wrote: Well, Omri welcome to community! Big Grin
I'm actually a music composer too since 2006, (also a DJ), but more for short videos and only electronic, but had to sell my music stuff two years sgo, oh well, hope I'll return to making music, it's so great to make your own music.

I hope you've had a chance to play any evil games and Dwelvers too, so you would know what do we mean by evil. However actual themes would fit quite really well Good side and surface world. It's more fantasy game, evil, black humour, however world of Dwelvers contains, many beautiful places to see, I'm sure the surface will contain many of them also. I also encourage to check our community videos in this thread if you haven't time for this yet. Wink

Thanks Sebt!

I've had a chance to play some Dwelvers, I grew up playing Diablo (it's soundtrack is really burnt into my memory), as well as Dungeon Keeper etc...
I have viewed the videos posted by the community and some of them are great ideas, when Rasmus says it's time to make more Dwelvers music - I'll use these as a resource for inspiration Smile

(23-01-2014, 03:36 PM)Sebt Wrote: ATM music is a little too much leading, but everything can be changed, less settlers, glorious and high music, but with some silence and than punchy drums, orchestra that instead of playing continuously will play from time to time in short times, anyway,.. a music built from single sounds, sounds of Dungeon naturę, environment, song of the caves... not as a one big composition, not as a music to listen, but to built a climate, tension, action for play. Smile

When I discussed this with Rasmus we thought it'd be best if there were long pauses between music plays, so you get a track (about 3-4 minutes of music) then a minute of silence to soak in the ambiance...
I agree that in a dark, moody game like Dwelvers, it'd be nice to have some silence to create tension, and make the sounds of the dungeon come to life.
Maybe in the upcoming tracks we could build more tension with minimal music, and then keep the current, busier music for later in the game.
Rasmus, what do you think?

Thanks everyone for the welcome and the good ideas Smile
- Omri Lahav, quality composer for media.

http://OmriLahav.com
Omri (@) OmriLahav.com
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#23
OmriLahav Wrote:When I discussed this with Rasmus we thought it'd be best if there were long pauses between music plays, so you get a track (about 3-4 minutes of music) then a minute of silence to soak in the ambiance...
I agree that in a dark, moody game like Dwelvers, it'd be nice to have some silence to create tension, and make the sounds of the dungeon come to life.
Maybe in the upcoming tracks we could build more tension with minimal music, and then keep the current, busier music for later in the game.
Rasmus, what do you think?
Adding in lots of quite music could also accomplish this as well. Take a look at the example I posted on Dragon Wars, there are long sections where the music is quiet piano music, with little other sound to it. The louder, higher energy music could come in whenever there's an event going on, or when the evil meter crosses certain thresholds to draw attention to these sort of events through the music. I.E. if the music suddenly gets louder and more energetic you know something's going on.
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#24
(24-01-2014, 02:19 PM)OmriLahav Wrote: Heavy metal will be fine - me and the project's drummer specialize in orchestral-metal combinations...
I don't know if you're aware but other than compose for games, I play guitar for a living (been at it for almost 20 years now), so I'd love a chance to include that in the score Big Grin

Yea some guitar chords would be welcomed!. In diablo 1 the music has some guitar sounds also as DK 2.
Also, I love the evil side theme in my 2nd favourite game after DK, so Emperor: Battle of Dune, so addictive game! Each of the side (which are 3) has a music completely different to each other, beautiful and original. Smile

Harkonnen: evil theme, factors, prudery, red and greed:




(24-01-2014, 02:19 PM)OmriLahav Wrote: When I discussed this with Rasmus we thought it'd be best if there were long pauses between music plays, so you get a track (about 3-4 minutes of music) then a minute of silence to soak in the ambiance...
I agree that in a dark, moody game like Dwelvers, it'd be nice to have some silence to create tension, and make the sounds of the dungeon come to life.
Maybe in the upcoming tracks we could build more tension with minimal music, and then keep the current, busier music for later in the game.
Rasmus, what do you think?

Hmm, I'm looking forward to it, wonder how tension with minimal music would be built, in this moment some creepy, evil or dungeonic, mining sounds could appear, or something.

This track is massive and I think the electronic bass could be nicely replaced with electric guitar.




I found something that got my attention in this track below. You can hear heavy violins, at the beginning there is a sound sample which says about something big and dangerous, space like Dungeon and evil livings there.



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#25
I don't know, I think this use of electronic drums could really stand out and take you out of the game experience, it's just way too modern and industrial for a dungeon of imps and orcs IMHO.
However, I am planning to use some electric guitar sounds.

The music I have in mind will contain long stretches of silence, or near-silence, with low drones or subtle orchestral bass-drum rolls, to really let the sound FX and ambiance come through.
The more rhythmic parts will be darker in nature, and feature electric guitars and some subtle electronic sounds, I'm also considering making use of an eerie choir, maybe even manipulated to sound like a demon-choir.
I might use some dubstep elements, but it's important to me to make them blend well with the orchestra, and not stand out too much.

Omri
- Omri Lahav, quality composer for media.

http://OmriLahav.com
Omri (@) OmriLahav.com
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#26
A demon choir? Warning it's creepy as hell!




or this? Scroll this to the almost end.




Sounds really nice, they are not chords, but maybe you have any example of demon chord?

I like your idea Omri, I always thought that the best music for a place is composed with this place sounds and mixed with tones that enrich these sounds making a very atmospheric theme. That's why the music for diablo or warcraft is so great, it reflects environment and life you control.

Edit: About near-silence, maybe something like in this beautiful track made by Zack Hemsey?


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#27
(22-01-2014, 03:12 AM)DwarvesAtWork Wrote: As far as evil music. I think the music from the first Diablo really captures a dark, scarey underground world.
And what about the town music of the Diablo series! That would be epic for the surface/town!




And a soundtrack from the Witcher 1 which could be for a lvl 1-2 music:


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#28
Yea, I love the guitar intro and dat transition man in 1:30...

Still we don't have surface world fully designed, just have some stuff so yea any ideas are welcome. Smile
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#29
Yea, I absolutely love the town music in Diablo... and also the wilderness music in Diablo II:




When we make the next few pieces of music for Dwelvers, I will definitely use Diablo as a reference!
- Omri Lahav, quality composer for media.

http://OmriLahav.com
Omri (@) OmriLahav.com
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#30
Ohi Omri. Nice to see you again on the forum. Smile
I could also give some other references I found on YouTube that could be mixed with diablo like music or something:











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