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Brainstorm Creature Mechanic - Creature production - Ideas needed!
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #1
Creature Mechanic - Creature production - Ideas needed!
Currently all the creature are produced out of items, the Orcs out gold and beer, the Imps out of coal.. But this is just something that works as a placeholder for now.

As seen I had a lot more items in mind, and also some lifestock that was going to be thrown in with the items. Personally I'm not that fond of just creating Orcs out of gold and beer, something tells me that the mix is missing some meat Tongue

Of course, as the production chain increases it will be a lot easier solve that issue. But we are also been having some other ideas. Why I think it is so important to get this straight once and for all is because I want to update the orginal list as seen in the link above with the new creatures, items, buildings and traps that have been suggested. The old list is solid, and the creatures produced with items that are on the same level as the creatures. Which would give the game some balance.

So I, Ameena, BurningPet and Sebt had a discussion about this yesterday the following ideas came forth. I will discuss the plus sides and the negative sides of the ideas, but I will not say what was mostly preferred because that could make the discussion about these ideas bias.

One thing that is clear, is that to create a creature we will need to sacrifice some items.

Idea 1:
As it is now, just using items to create creatures.

Idea 2:
We discussed having creatures as sacrificing as well, like throwing in two imps together with some other items would create an Orc, that idea resembles the original idea I had for producing creatures. The downside is that the player may think that why should I create 2 imps to just re-feed them to the dark mother to create an orc? Why can't I just throw in enough materials too create two imps together with the orc items to create an orc directly? So to solve that idea we could force the player to level up the imps to level 4 before they can be re-feed and be able to work as materials for creating the orc.

Idea 3:
This made us come into a discussion about not sacrificing our own creatures, maybe the enemy creatures could work as a food source instead. The low level creatures could maybe be created by items, while the higher level creatures would require enemy bodies as materials to be produced. The plus side here is that we don't need to sacrifices our own creatures and the prison would also get to a good use. The downside is that enemies is a limited resource, and not being able to create more creatures just because there are not enough enemies is something that could be a real problem.

Idea 4:
What if we had a meat-grinder of some sort in the prison room, we can take enemy creatures that have been imprisoned and grind them in the meat-grinder to make them drop specific items that only specific creatures can drop. Like a horn from the cyclotaur for example. These items could then be used as a food source for creating new creatures. The plus side here is that we only feed the Dark Mother with items, meaning that we don't need to mix in creatures in the Dark Mother menu when putting together the ingredients. Another plus side is that we could use these creature items as a ingredients for creating items and such. But the downside is still that the enemies is a limited resource.

Idea 5:
This was an idea just thrown in, but I thought I could mention it again. Rats, fishes, pigs and enemies are all made out of meat. So if these were feed to the dark mother a meat meter would fill up. Then to produce creatures we would need to use up a certain amount of this meat together with the items in idea 1. The upside is that I can't see any direct issues with this. The downside is that it is pretty unimaginative comparing to the other ideas Tongue

Idea 6:
Many of these ideas had the issue that the enemies are a limited resource. So what if the meatgrinder took the dna from the the enemies when they were being grinded, meaning that once we have grinded one creature we could reproduce him somehow, or reproduce the item he dropped. If we were to reproduce this creature then we can't just use items, because that would take us back to square one and just add more complexity to the problem. So in that case we would have to use up something like EP points or something else that is replenish-able. The plus side is that we could make unlimited number of creatures with this solution, the downside is that it can be to many steps involved to create a creatures, and also, it would imply that all creature types always are available on the map to make it possible to create all the creature types.

There were some other idea here.. But these were the main ideas, and I feel like these could be a good starter Smile
(This post was last modified: 23-08-2014 07:18 PM by Sebt.)
28-01-2014 12:47 PM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
Idea 1:
Easiest way, but kinda boring. Also I've always felt items like Gold should be reserved for making/upgrading items instead of in creature production.
Idea 2:
Sacrificing the creatures fits the theme, but like you said turns into making sacrificial characters that are just essentially fillers until they're combined into making a new creature.
Idea 3:
This one sounds pretty cool. While I don't really see that enemies being a limitted resource is a real issue because you could always have something spawning more on the map somewhere. This also forces you into exploring the map to find where the enemy is camped out, and forces you to start conflict sooner than later in order to get your army really goin.
Idea 4:
This one caught my eye, but instead of the meat grinder scenario, I would rather see it as some kind of extraction in another way. We could keep the enemy creatures stashed in prison that we need to extract from, where they would need to be kept reletively healthy (i.e. fed), or they would die there. From your healthy prison population, you could transfer the prisoner to the Arcanium (an Idea I'm toying with, but haven't had a chance to post) where wizards could extract their essense to a bottle. This essense would differ depending on the creature, and different members of your created creatures will require specific essenses based on their creature type. This in combination with items dug from the ground would be needed to create these creatures. Essense extraction would be on a timer so you wouldn't be able to continuously extract from a creature.
Idea 5:
Not really diggin the Meat Meter...
Idea 6:
DNA makes sense for a Sci-Fi game, but refer back to my comment on #4. I think that ties #4 & #6 together which I think is the ideal scenario.

--Just my 2 cents
(This post was last modified: 28-01-2014 04:59 PM by Mello Tonin.)
28-01-2014 04:57 PM
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
Idea 4 you had there sounds interesting, but then we will have to make wizards before being able to make other creatures. Creature generators would be a solution to the limited amount, but we would need to have a generator for every creature type, so that the player can create the creatures.

But then again, idea 4 would be fine as it is, if we accepted that certain creatures can only be created in a certain amount unless there are generators nearby.

Hmm, I tend to think in the same direction of how DK solved the gold issue, by having spells that could create gold in worse case scenario. But if we would have it like that, then it should always be harder to produce the "creature" / "creature items" with spells than actually capturing and grind a creature for loot. We want to encourage the player to continue grinding enemies.
28-01-2014 06:43 PM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
Well what I was thinking is that there would be some creatures that wouldn't require such methods of production. That basic creatures like the Imp, Orc, and even a Wizard could be made from basic materials you can gather. It would only be when you start making more advanced creatures would you need to extract essences from creatures to build them.

All and all, the materials would still be fed to the Dark Mother and she would produce the units. I could be possible that perhaps Imps would have the abillity to take the prisoner to where the essence is extracted, but it would take a bit longer to produce than if a Wizard was in charge that way a Wizard would be another creature you work to attain.
28-01-2014 08:36 PM
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Seriously Unserious Offline
The Ninja Dinosaur

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Post: #5
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
(28-01-2014 12:47 PM)Rasmus Wrote:  http://forum.dwelvers.com/showthread.php?tid=672
I'm getting a "thread does not exist" error on that link...

As for the rest of the ideas, I'm pressed for time right now so I'll have to read them later when I have more time.
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29-01-2014 12:15 AM
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Seriously Unserious Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
OK, now that I have the time here's my take on these ideas:

Idea 1:
I'm with Mellow on this one, it's boring but works for basic creatures like orcs and imps

Idea 2:
IMO this would create problems of just creating creatures for the purpose of destroying them.

Idea 3:
The limited supply of enemy creatures is a problem for sure. Your creatures will be sure to have casualites so this would impose too much of a limit on your ability to create creatures, plus you wouldn't be able to create creatures until you could create creatures to capture enemies to use to create creatures, a classic catch-22 situation.

Unless...

This idea were combined with Idea 1, basic (eg orc, goblin, imp, etc) creatures are made with basic items (ie gold, coal, beer, etc) while advanced creatures (such as suggestions for lizardman, golem, ratmen, etc) could be made by enemy creature sacrifice. If this method is used, some creatures could respawn, much like the knights do at the portals. Another option could be if you have 2 or more of a creature type, you could force them into a prison room where the 2 prisoners are completely hidden from view for a few minutes and when they come out, a new version has been created (ie breeding prisoners). This would create the need to balance sacrificing prisoners to make more powerful creatures, working your prisoners as slaves, and managing their population. Sacrifice too many, allow too many to be tortured too often, over work them or starve them and you could find yourself SHOL if you're down to less then 2 of a rare prisoner type, such as cyclotaurs, and can't make any creature types that require a cyclotaur sacrifice. IMO this method of implementation fits in with both the dark humor, evil overload, theme, and the resource management theme.

Idea 4:
I'm not digging the meat grinder idea, it has the same problems as an unmodified Idea 3, plus it just strikes me as a bit too badass for the overall theme.

Idea 5:
I don't really like this idea

Idea 6:
DNA is too Si-Fi for me. Mellow's idea of extracting a creature's "essence" makes more sense for the genre.
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29-01-2014 09:17 AM
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
Okay, if we made it all more simple, I really don't like to rely on killing enemies to create my own creatures.

What if we left the idea of having enemies as a main construction material for certain creature types. Lets say that the EP decides if the Dark Mother have the ability to create certain creatures. We gather EP as explained in this thread: http://forum.dwelvers.com/showthread.php?tid=636

The creatures will still need materials to be constructed, like gold, coal, certain weapons and so on.. The higher level creature the harder it is to get this material, I don't want a situation where the player have to feed the mother with 400 gold to create a ultimate creature. When it comes to the meat that of course is needed so that we don't break any law of conservation. So that can take me back to having a meat meter in the dark mother menu, fishes and so on would increase this meter a little bit, but feeding the Dark Mother with creatures would definitely do the job.

When creatures dies in general, allies as much as enemies they drop half the amount of items that they were created from. So even if can't create a cyclotaur, we would still get his bone, that could be used for specific constructions for example, but nothing that could stop the production if not available.
29-01-2014 06:02 PM
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Rikus Khan Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
Hmm, I want the process of making creatures to be somewhat grotesque. My mind keeps racing back to the scene in Lord of the Rings when the Oruki hatch. I like the idea of the Dark Mother spitting them out after being fed .. it is gross enough. How about an idea thread on a different path? How about the DM (Dark Mother) spits out an embryo or larva or egg (or maybe it crawls out .. maybe it eats the first imp it sees .. who comes running for it to carry it to it's incubator (special kind of room).

The lowest level guys (called orcs for now) could come from eggs. No eating of imps and no upkeep. They need to be placed near a warm fire or in a bubbling mud bath (volcanic). They hatch, roar, run for the table (devoring twice as much food as normal). Maybe if there is not enough food or table space, they will eat an imp .. or at least chase one around until food/table is ready. The kind of room you put them in determines what they will be when they hatch. They only cost what an egg costs .. and it would be cheap.

Wizards or other human-ish creatures could come from babies. They cry until an imp takes them to their crib (I am thinking the crying is to alert the player of a new arrival .. not lasting for ever!!!) .. or play pen .. which could be specific for the adult you want to train (meaning you need the ability to turn off the play pens you don't want it going to .. or once it pops out click on it and specify where you want it to go or become). The wizard could have a little library or chemistry set or something wizardly. The dark Maiden type chick many of us have talked about could be put into a play pen with a rack, iron maiden, or other torture stuff to play with. This idea expands with other creatures of this sort.

More fantastical creatures could come in larval form and come squirming out of the DM. These creatures come ravenous out of the DM and want sustenance NOW! They will eat the first living food source that comes near (imagine the dark comedy of seeing one of your orcs beating a larva off it's leg .. just a thought). This could be an imp or a Knight (which could kill it easily) or it could be a captured hero (imps won't go near as long as you have a hero in your prison .. otherwise they will happily do the DM's bidding by 'caring' for her newest baby). These creatures also need a special room and they need feeding. The types of food (bread, beer, flesh, raw antroot, wood, stone, iron, gold, ingots, fish, etc.) could determine the creature you make. Turn on stone only and get a stone golem, gold gives you a dragon, the combos you get from turning on certain materials and leaving others off (default state is off) quickly skyrockets. If you vary the amounts required for each resource you quickly approach a total number of possible combinations of millions of different combos easily within reach .. infinity is also a possibility if you wanted to go there (but who wants -1/12 creatures .. sorry, math joke). Also, you can adjust the level of the creature coming out of the larva .. lets say ten stone makes a golem. You have the option of hatching (pupating or whatever you want) or you have the option of adding another level with the cost of gold. So, thirty stone (ten for level one and twenty for level two) and one gold gives you a level two golem. Also, you have the option with this of making different kinds of subspecies. Let's say twenty gold gives you a dragon; twenty gold and twenty beer give you a poison breathing dragon. Adding twenty wood to the other will give you a fire breathing dragon. This method will allow a player to utilize the resources they have in abundance and give the dev near infinite amounts of wiggle room for tweaking playability, future (creature) updates (DLC), and the added fun of (something I have been thinking of adding a request for) custom maps (I'll quit here or the topic will quickly spiral out of control .. I will add my own thread). Also, certain creatures could take over what ever room they are in when they pupate. Think about a giant spider taking over a room it cannot get out of .. instant good guy trap .. maybe even bad guy trap .. watch out!

The idea of having special rooms for each kind (or for each) baby fits into the theme better I think. Also, you can build any baby, egg, or larva you want from the beginning at minimal cost (coal, beer, bread, rock .. whatever). The resources needed to produce a dragon might be out of your reach and the larva might be dying or mutating out of your control due to not feeding it. This balances the game. Yes, you can start to build a dragon in the first seconds of the game .. no you don't want to (this sound like a Fun story akin to Dwarf Fortress).
Code:
[insert witty text here]
(This post was last modified: 30-01-2014 01:20 PM by Rikus Khan.)
30-01-2014 01:09 PM
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TopperHarley Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
(30-01-2014 01:09 PM)Rikus Khan Wrote:  Hmm, I want the process of making creatures to be somewhat grotesque. My mind keeps racing back to the scene in Lord of the Rings when the Oruki hatch. I like the idea of the Dark Mother spitting them out after being fed .. it is gross enough. How about an idea thread on a different path? How about the DM (Dark Mother) spits out an embryo or larva or egg (or maybe it crawls out .. maybe it eats the first imp it sees .. who comes running for it to carry it to it's incubator (special kind of room).

The lowest level guys (called orcs for now) could come from eggs. No eating of imps and no upkeep. They need to be placed near a warm fire or in a bubbling mud bath (volcanic). They hatch, roar, run for the table (devoring twice as much food as normal). Maybe if there is not enough food or table space, they will eat an imp .. or at least chase one around until food/table is ready. The kind of room you put them in determines what they will be when they hatch. They only cost what an egg costs .. and it would be cheap.

Wizards or other human-ish creatures could come from babies. They cry until an imp takes them to their crib (I am thinking the crying is to alert the player of a new arrival .. not lasting for ever!!!) .. or play pen .. which could be specific for the adult you want to train (meaning you need the ability to turn off the play pens you don't want it going to .. or once it pops out click on it and specify where you want it to go or become). The wizard could have a little library or chemistry set or something wizardly. The dark Maiden type chick many of us have talked about could be put into a play pen with a rack, iron maiden, or other torture stuff to play with. This idea expands with other creatures of this sort.

More fantastical creatures could come in larval form and come squirming out of the DM. These creatures come ravenous out of the DM and want sustenance NOW! They will eat the first living food source that comes near (imagine the dark comedy of seeing one of your orcs beating a larva off it's leg .. just a thought). This could be an imp or a Knight (which could kill it easily) or it could be a captured hero (imps won't go near as long as you have a hero in your prison .. otherwise they will happily do the DM's bidding by 'caring' for her newest baby). These creatures also need a special room and they need feeding. The types of food (bread, beer, flesh, raw antroot, wood, stone, iron, gold, ingots, fish, etc.) could determine the creature you make. Turn on stone only and get a stone golem, gold gives you a dragon, the combos you get from turning on certain materials and leaving others off (default state is off) quickly skyrockets. If you vary the amounts required for each resource you quickly approach a total number of possible combinations of millions of different combos easily within reach .. infinity is also a possibility if you wanted to go there (but who wants -1/12 creatures .. sorry, math joke). Also, you can adjust the level of the creature coming out of the larva .. lets say ten stone makes a golem. You have the option of hatching (pupating or whatever you want) or you have the option of adding another level with the cost of gold. So, thirty stone (ten for level one and twenty for level two) and one gold gives you a level two golem. Also, you have the option with this of making different kinds of subspecies. Let's say twenty gold gives you a dragon; twenty gold and twenty beer give you a poison breathing dragon. Adding twenty wood to the other will give you a fire breathing dragon. This method will allow a player to utilize the resources they have in abundance and give the dev near infinite amounts of wiggle room for tweaking playability, future (creature) updates (DLC), and the added fun of (something I have been thinking of adding a request for) custom maps (I'll quit here or the topic will quickly spiral out of control .. I will add my own thread). Also, certain creatures could take over what ever room they are in when they pupate. Think about a giant spider taking over a room it cannot get out of .. instant good guy trap .. maybe even bad guy trap .. watch out!

The idea of having special rooms for each kind (or for each) baby fits into the theme better I think. Also, you can build any baby, egg, or larva you want from the beginning at minimal cost (coal, beer, bread, rock .. whatever). The resources needed to produce a dragon might be out of your reach and the larva might be dying or mutating out of your control due to not feeding it. This balances the game. Yes, you can start to build a dragon in the first seconds of the game .. no you don't want to (this sound like a Fun story akin to Dwarf Fortress).

Hiho

I like your idea *Thumbs up*
I dont know if this is possible to implement but the idea is great!

Cheers
Topper
(This post was last modified: 30-01-2014 01:31 PM by TopperHarley.)
30-01-2014 01:25 PM
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Mastergoose Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
I agree with Mello and SU on idea 1,2 and 3.
Idea 4 also piqued my interest! It's a great way to create units but you will have the problem that you run out of enemies, and thus your own units. And I rather have my prison filled than grinding everythingTongue Like SU said, maybe too dark.
You can solve/combine the prison with Idea 6:
extracting dna or getting some kind of artifact/totem (for example a cyclotaur horn which you place on an altar or something) which only happens with the first creature of that species(=unlock),
and after that using Mello's idea;
(28-01-2014 04:57 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  [..] We could keep the enemy creatures stashed in prison that we need to extract from, where they would need to be kept reletively healthy (i.e. fed), or they would die there. [..]
the following creatures of that species will "stay" in the prison to have themselves essence/souls extracted.

Or you could get your essence from humans in the surfaceworlds / knights out of portals. You are a demon after all Wink
30-01-2014 05:32 PM
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
Welcome to the forum TopperHarley Smile

Yeah, it is a lot to implement and a lot that could interfere with the gameplay. But I really like the egg idea, the texture and the size of the egg could determine what creature are in there. This would save me a lot of time as well, because that would mean that the "spewing out" animation that the creature have could be avoided. Not saying that it takes to much time to do it, but when the animation has been made there are very little room for changes without having to redo the whole thing.

The hatching and specific rooms could be assigned to their beds, but I am not sure I am 100% with this idea, I like that it would be some delay for certain creatures to hatch, because then the player can't just create 10+ orcs as soon as a enemy approaches, but the whole carrying thing and tending to the egg could be a little bit to tedious, especially in emergency situations.

Giving extra materials to the Dark Mother to spew out a extra level creature is an interesting idea, but it would bring us back to the former menu where the player feed the dark mother with material, and then in a extra menu decided what she would do with the material. It could of course be more simple than that like that the player have an extra option somewhere for every creature created what level it should be created in, but that could also be a little confusing and not straight forward enough, especially as creature cost varies depending on how many creatures of the same type is already on the map. I don't think this idea will be implemented as personally I prefer having the creatures created at lowest level and then they will have to train for more experience. If I were to implement something like this I think a crafting table would be the right way to go in the Dark Mother menu, because that would also support the extra abilities given to the creatures. But once again the issue with more expensive creature depending on the number of creatures owned would interfere.

If I had a special room for each kind of creature it would require a lot of rooms, probably more rooms that I have planned to make so far. So I think that would be a little bit to much work versus the reward it gives.

Well, as said, I like the egg idea, so that is something I will probably implement as it has a lot of advantages. But the issue still remains if we should feed the Dark Mother with enemy creatures. As I see it, the only thing suggested so far that could work and is balanced enough is the we refeed our own creature when they have reached a certain level to the Dark Mother with extra materials to create even stronger creatures.

This is my idea of having it balanced. All items have a level, items that are dug out would be level 1, items that are created out of the dug out items would be level 2, and when those items are mixed to create other items they would be level 3. It is all about how high up they are in the production chain, the higher up they are the harder it is to create them.

So now we have the creatures, those creatures that are made out of level 1 items and nothing else would be level 1 creatures. Level 2 creatures are those that are created out of level 2 items and a couple of level 1 creatures that have reached a certain level, and the level 3 creatures are created out of level 3 items and a couple of the level 2 creatures that have reached a certain level. This makes it very hard to get the really high level creatures, but it is still possible to create them as long as the player has the basic materials.

SU said earlier that a link was inaccessible, that was a topic a created showing of the ideas I had when I first started making this game. But I decided to remove the topic because it could be confusing having it there as people may thing that the ideas there is something I have planned for the future. I will repost the topic soon again once I have made it up to date. But to show you all what I mean I will repost the creature ideas I had then:

Basic Creatures:
----------------
Imp (1x Tool Belt + 4x Dirt)
Pig goblin (1x Pig + 1x Sword)
Cow goblin (1x Cow + 1x Sword)
Skeleton (6x Bones + 1x Crystal)
Vampire (3x Corps + 3x Crystal + 1x Chain armor + 1x Sword + 2x Mana potion)
Dark dwarf (1x Pig + 5x Beer + 1x Axe + 1x Leather armor + 1x Shield)
Fire fly (1x Chicken + 1x Fire bomb + 1x Dirt + 1x oil)
Rock golem (10x Rock + 10x Dirt)
Dark elves (1x corps + 5x Crystal + 1x Bow + 1x chain armor + 5x oil + 5x Mana potion)
Poison blob (10x Dirt + 1x Poison bomb)
Fire blob (10x Dirt + 1x Fire bomb)

Advanced Creatures:
-------------------
Iron golem (1x Rock golem + 10x Iron)
Master Goblin (1x Goblin (lv 4) + 1x Shield + 1x Plate armor)
Dark Angel (1x Vampire (lv 4) + 5x chickens + 10x Gold coin + 1x Crystal armor + 1x Shield)
Juggernaut (1x Dark dwarf (lv 4) + 5x Beer + 3x stamina potion + 1x Axe + 1x Plate armor)
Bone phoenix (10x Fire fly + 10x skeletons + 5x oil + 5x fire bomb)
Dominator (1x Dark elf (lv 7) + 2x Whip + 1x Plate armor + 10x health potion + 10x fire bomb)

Master Creatures:
-----------------
Magma golem (2x Iron golem + 10x Crystal + 5x Lava)
Titan (1x Dominator (lv 10) + 2x Juggernaut (lv 4))
Reaper (1x Dark Angel (lv 10) + 1x Bone phoenix (lv 7))

Grand Master Creature:
----------------------
Demigod (1x Magma golem (lv 10) + 1x Titan (lv 10) + 1x Reaper (lv 10))

(TO CLARIFY, THIS LIST IS JUST AN EXAMPLE, NOT ANYTHING ELSE)

So as seen here the "Advanced Creatures" needs "Basic Creatures" to be created, and the "Master Creatures" needs "Advanced Creatures" to be created and so forth.

If you don't like this idea, please let me know, nothing is hammered in stone yet. But I do need ideas that will not imply to many game mechanic changes and that are balanced. This is not me being lazy, it is just that I think it is the best way to do it so that we don't go to much a head of ourselves. Once the ideas have been implemented we can start adding new ideas to those ideas.
30-01-2014 05:55 PM
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
(30-01-2014 05:32 PM)Mastergoose Wrote:  I agree with Mello and SU on idea 1,2 and 3.
Idea 4 also piqued my interest! It's a great way to create units but you will have the problem that you run out of enemies, and thus your own units. And I rather have my prison filled than grinding everythingTongue Like SU said, maybe too dark.
You can solve/combine the prison with Idea 6:
extracting dna or getting some kind of artifact/totem (for example a cyclotaur horn which you place on an altar or something) which only happens with the first creature of that species(=unlock),
and after that using Mello's idea;
(28-01-2014 04:57 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  [..] We could keep the enemy creatures stashed in prison that we need to extract from, where they would need to be kept reletively healthy (i.e. fed), or they would die there. [..]
the following creatures of that species will "stay" in the prison to have themselves essence/souls extracted.

Or you could get your essence from humans in the surfaceworlds / knights out of portals. You are a demon after all Wink

The problem is also that all creature types needs to be on the map for the player to be able to create his own creatures. What if one map are missing impanzees for example. Then the player can't produce the creature type that needs the Impanzee essence. This will really limit the variety between maps. If we are going to feed the dark mother with creatures I think we need to go down the path as DK did, that all creatures can be sacrificed to create either Skeletons or Vampires.
30-01-2014 06:01 PM
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Mastergoose Offline
Realm Conqueror

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Post: #13
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
I love the egg idea. The hatching time could be seen as the load time? Maybe put eggs in cue so that not everything will hatch at once?

As for the diversity on the maps, I had no idea that some maps will exclude certain creatures. If that is the case you can either work with the items suggestion Rasmus made. It seems well worked out with levels etc.

You could also spawn certain altars, ruins or worshiping places through the world with the "DNA-extract/artifact" of the species. Then even if you won't have the creatures in the map, you can still unlock them sometime through the game.
The problem with this however is that stronger creature DNA deposits will need some difficulty to find or access. Otherwise you might find it too early in the game. (Not sure if this is a problem if the build-cost is pretty high?)
I haven't given it a good thought how to accomplish this. Any suggestions?

I don't know exactly how DK handled this, but sacrificing to create skeletons would be awesome!
30-01-2014 06:19 PM
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Seriously Unserious Offline
The Ninja Dinosaur

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Post: #14
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
I can see the potential in this idea. I think the costs for the basic creatures is fine as it is, but the more advanced creatures do need to be more then just feeding a combination of basic resources. Items that have been crafted from basic resources (eg. coal and iron) such as iron bars, would definitely be a good choice for somewhat more advanced creatures, and requiring the basic creatures in sacrifice for more advanced creatures is one way to accomplish this.

One thing I don't want this to turn into is a "level race" game where whoever gets the "most leveled up" creatures first wins the game as they become invincible to the pre leveled up versions. I'd like there to be good reasons to not always level everything up as a matter of course. So non-leveled up creatures can have some specific strength or ability that the leveled up version doesn't have that could be more advantageous for certain situations or strategies. Even though the "leveled up" versions are stronger overall.
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31-01-2014 12:54 AM
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Rikus Khan Offline
Antroot Farmer

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Post: #15
RE: Creature production discussion - Ideas needed!
(30-01-2014 05:55 PM)Rasmus Wrote:  If you don't like this idea, please let me know

I hate it .. throw all that away and start from scratch.
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31-01-2014 08:56 AM
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