Brainstorm Creature Mechanic - Creature production - Ideas needed!
#31
I'm working at solution for every issues made by actual idea and will present it today including another ways of having/making creatures. Prepare for a long lecture, but I can't shortened it. The first method of making creatures will be that solution, the rest will be only for additional creations, so I'll split it into 2 posts to clarify where will be the end.

What I can say is that EP will be no more needed for making creatures, but still will be needed for unlocking new. Chain Production will be there again applied and Dark Mother still will be needed to make creatures and Eggs will be there too as "creature blueprint" and essences. Big Grin
It's a big mix of our team ideas and your ideas folks for which I'm very thankful because gave me an inspiration, stay tuned!

EDIT: OK folks, I think it's a good time to back on topic and give me 4 minutes. Wink

The problem we encounter in Dwelvers is that all creatures made by us are living beings - they comes from another being which is a Dark Mother - so everything is biological, organic and that need "life elements" to exist, everybody them are made from cells. How to solve it in case of Dwelvers?
All above is about flesh and blood units, some of them would come from Hell like Demons, other could be buried alive, some were made by artisans and from raw materials, some put asleep many years ago... and that just wait for ocassion... could be....... woken up... again.

My new idea, that wasn't discussed with anyone until now is to make creatures from "different things and different buildings and in specified way" ("dtadbaisw" in short...). Than feeding Dark Mother will look different (more disgusting), but we could make her as Incubator (maybe someone would give a better suggestion for it's name?) for flesh and blood creatures that would come from these "dtadbaisw".
I like idea of eggs, essences and I really want to save mechanism of production chain for creatures and, what's more - make traps and prison very useful in another way. I mixed suggestions from different people on our community into THIS ONE. Thanks to you I could made this:


Introduction - how all that works?
- We can make creatures >> ONLY << from live beings like Creatures, Critters/Animals and whatever will exist in game and live (let's call them all LB in short - from Life Beings) and that can be found anywhere on the map.
Imps are not an exception - at the beginning, depending on your Map Settings, certain number Imps are hatched from Imp Eggs in Dark Mother's stomach, then spited out and are ready to work (so you have some of their Eggs at the start already), but if you want more Imps you need to use one of the method that will be presented later.
- If you have a creature(s): Use your creature(s) - fight with LB and leave it with the 1% of it's HP to stun it, then take victim with your creature to the Prison. You can do it with any kind of LB you want.
- If you have NOT any creature(s): Use traps - At the beginning you're able to make few primitive traps with you can catch & wrap the LB - using traps like trap hole or press'n'cage trap after activating their Pressure Pads. Afterward, victim of our madness tricks are being stunned by your Imp and moved into Cages in Prison. ATTENTION! Traps that we can use at the beginning can catch only weak and small LB (later maybe we could make better. Also there is a chance that if stunned before LB wake up it can free itself and then you need to trap it again!
*Trap holes works like that: when victim is trapped it's wrapped by constructs and it tries to free itself, so until it won't free itself you have chance to stun it. Light weight/fast creatures can jump over holes if they're uncovered.
*Press'n'cage works like that: when creature is pressing a pad, it's caught to cage that came from tile below. Can free itself as above, so you need to be fast until cage would lost it's all durability points. Cage be easily destroyed by another creature, so you need to set your traps wisely... especially that trapping don't need from you to harm victims, so sometimes it's good to built traps near Prison and Dark Mother, but sometimes and can be treacherous.


What can we do with our shakin'-pants prisoners?
Before I will say anything about methods of using prisoners - if you want to move a prisoner to convert it into "dtadbaisw" you just need to do right-click on your mouse on prisoner and chose from menu (that appears like any other circle menus in Dwelvers) one of the available option.

ATTENTION! Yes, creatures are no more need to be made from creature's menu, but from circle menus when right-clicking on creature/prisoner it shows available creature(s) to be made. Name and short their description with required items will be shown when you hover mouse on target option in the circle menu. There should be also a "back to previous menu" icon as an additional circle option.


Method 1 - The ever hungry Dark Mother, Blueprint-like Organs and Eggs
- Your sick brain can order your Imps to take prisoner(s) to Dark Mother where will be... eaten... After throwing one to her maw You can hear horrible screams of gobbling the victim, it's bursting like pop corn bones and loud chomp of throwing over victim's meat inside DM's maw.... mmmm, delicious...
- After meal you get one Life Essence (DNA/Soul-like item) and specific to this creature's specie Organs-like thing(s) (you get for example an Orc specie Organ(s) if eaten creature was an Orc, Troll (so an Elf too?), Goblin, Ogre etc.).
*As strong, big, fat, etc. is... was munched LB as more these Organs you can get, however you can get only one Life Essence per one LB.
- Afterward, from Life Essences and Organs, that after DM's lunch are stored in Incubator-like things (Dark Mother's Buildings like THIS?) we can chose from right-click Incubators menu a creature to be made from them - let it be a Green Goblin (an Orc specie/type creature).
*If we store Pigs or Cows we could make Cow-like or Pig-like creatures, but for example if you need Cyclotaur you need first to unlock him having certain number of Evil Points and then sacrifice more Cow Organs than non animal origin creature would need it's specie Organs to be made from required ingredients.
- After confirming a choice, an Imp will get from Blacksmith required to make a Green Goblin proper Equipment items. ATTENTION! At the start of the game (depending on Map Settings), you will have a Rack with some basic Battle Eqipments, Tool Rack with some basic Work Equipments and Tool Barrel with some basic Tools for Imps, so don't worry about that you don't have any Equipment items. What's more first creatures you would make won't have high demands.
- After throwing required Equipment items to DM, she starts to make an Egg (in our case Green Goblin Egg) from Organ(s), Life Essence. You could see how Eggs stored in Incubators are forming and growing.
- Depending on hatching time of the creature we want to make, DM will spit out our new creature when creature in the Egg will start to hatch. She will do it... in a very gentle, known for her way - she spits out disgusting, gelatinous, blob (that was made from Egg and mixed with DM's fluids) with a creature. You can see her mucous around the spitted out creature. Newly made creature lie on the floor (equiped with threw earlier Equipment items), than it try to leave a blob film, get up, brush down from a dribbling mucous and go.
- ATTENTION! Imps cost only Life Essences to make, so you can get some from Animals/Critters that weak one Imps can kill, no traps needed.
- Of course if you caught an Orc you don't need to make from it another Orc, but then you need to have Torture Room unlocked and convert this Orc!

*If we would be enough sick to do that, we can set that DM has hunger meter and if she won't have any units to ear for a longer time she can suck into her maw our own creatures!
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#32
Below, here we have my propositions to make creatures with non-DM-using methods:

Method 2 - Stealing Happiness and Blood
- With this method you can make creatures from other parts of the underworld that you can call from... prisoners.
- When you do a right-click on prisoner you can open a circle menu and from the one of few options there you can chose "Call a Demon", then from many different (depending on prisoner's creature type) creatures available we chose one, let it be a Magog.
- After clicking OK, that you're sure you want to make a Demon creature from this creature, there is send an order to Laboratory to make a mixture/potion of Demon Blood that cost Life Essence and Blood of the victim.
- After sending an order, an Imp is going to Prison and do something very terrible... it takes something like syringe and... and... inject victim a virus of Sadness which will consume victim's whole happiness! By doing it sucks victim's blood to that syringe and take it to Laboratory when prepare a Demon Blood.
- When victim is losing it's happiness, (there could be an animation that it's colors turns to gray and it has sad animation), and has lowered it to minimum, then this sadness slowly make this creature mad... seriously unserious mad. It starts to panic, screaming, walking like paralized around the Prison. When it lost whole willings to life (at around 1% of it's life) it will fall on the floor and then an Imp is going to victim with ready Demon Blood and inject it to a victim.
- After injection, victim dies and from it... a new Demon (in our case Magog) is born!:

*I'm not saying that I'm crazy, but I'm crazy...


Method 3 - Summoned from The Pit of The Damned
- You can get from there Demons or Fire creatures like Balrog, Hellcat, Ifrit, Horned Demon, Gog, etc. doing something like in DK you do with Temple: sacrifice certain number of specific creatures from specific category there to get one of the Demon or Fire creature.
*Remember that after sacrificing creatures you get some burning after resources from them (like Charcoal or so). It can be quite cost-effective, especially that you don't need Life Essences to make them.


Method 4 - Raised from Corpses stored in Boneyard:
- Nosferatu, Zombie etc. Requires: dead bodies stored in Zikkurat (Boneyard Room Building),
- Skeleton, Lich etc. from Skeleton Transformer (like this in HoMM 3) - Requires: insert any living creature from certain category (i.e. living, magic, undead) there to get one of them.


Method 5 - Using Managnetite (or other specific stone):
- Behemoth, Archaeopteryx etc. from Fossil Items that you can rarely find in the ground. To make them alive you need to mix Fossil Item and Life Essences. They could need a special Room Bulding (for example in Laboratory)
- Golems etc. like above, but instead of Fossil Items you need to use just different resources, Life Essence and Managnetites to make them.


Method 5 - Mercenary Camp and Bob
- You can find some strange places where you can find different, even unspoken, uncommon or just ordinary creatures that you can buy/hire for gold or another resources - these are Mercenary Camps.
- You can kill every creatures there if you wish of course... but if we would have Reputation Meter in game, killing them could lower your reputation in their faction... however you may need some Life Essences, oh well.
- Bob is someone who in comparison to MCs is walking around Dungeons and that offers some LB for gold or another resources. Well, his concept I lleft unchanged. Wink


Method 6 - Torture Chamber
- Right-click on prisoner and chose "Take this bitc...", akhm "Take this nonentity to Torture Room".
- Imp will stun prisoner and take to the Torture Room where you can just convert it to your side.

Method 7 - Awaken from sleep...
- Some places hides remains of ancient civilizations... and some no flesh and blood ancient creatures that ancients used as weapons or carriers.
- To activate them you need to do Right-click on ancient creature and chose "Bring it back to live".
- After doing above, an Imp takes from DM a Life Essence and brings it to that ancient creature.
- When ancient creature got the Life Essence it turns on and can do anything you want under your control.



Why this idea of making creatures may be better then actual?
- In comparison to Portal/Entrance in DK, you can make many creatures at one time, you don't need to wait for creatures to come, which can help very much in multiplayer or single player mode.
- It's elastic - you can make a map without imps or creatures for your control at the start of the game.
- There is no need to sacrifice creatures unless we say about prisoners.
- Evil Points (which are temporary name for them, but regards to the Evil Meter) are only for unlocking new stuff, maintain your Dungeon and maybe for using spells, but for nothing else - as they was planned to be.
- You can have many different strategies for making creatures and game(play) looks more diverse.
- Everything needs from you a creature from outside - that limits amount of creatures that can be made, but you always can made creatures from dead bodies (but then less organs and Life Essences you get).
- No more option from creature's menu to make creatures! If we would like to have there many, many creatures to make we could made us crazy. Of course we can still have creature's menu and make from there creature's from Incubators (so we can see who's Essences we have), but this would need more researching and clicking. IMO creature's menu should be only for stats.
- Production Chain is saved and Dark Mother is still in so these should make Rasmus happy. Big Grin
- About making creatures by spitting them out from Dark Mother - Ben: ALIEN like? ZERG like? i like it.
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#33
I like your ideas better then what was discussed before, of just using the EPs for basic creatures. Still, IMO there should be one worker type and one fighter type that can be created from internal dungeon resources, so as not to upset the balance of the game totally or create the possibility of unwinnable maps. All maps should have at least the possibility of winning them if the right strategies are used.

I have another idea for creating new creature types, especially for the hybrid types like impanzees, cyclotaurs and ratmen. This would involve having a specimen of 2 or more different creature types, a laboratory and a spellcaster. the spellcaster would use the lab to experiment on the creatures and produce a hybrid creature. For example, a ratman could be produced by capturing a human creature, and a rat, and experimenting with both, and when the experimenting is done, both are magically combined so the rat and human would be combined together into a single hybrid creature, the ratman. Of course, if the human was initally good aligned, such as a knight, you may need to still use the torture chamber to make sure any remaining knightly goodness is wiped out of the ratman, otherwise it may revert to its former alignment (ie end up with a good aligned noble ratman who would behave just like a knight would.

So many possibilities here! So many.
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#34
This is about what I thought about next method, to have Laboratory where you can breed even plant creatures that you could use in battle later, but idea about mixing two species is interesting. Don't know if we could manage to make so much new models unless they would normally exist in the game.

(02-02-2014, 10:26 AM)Seriously Unserious Wrote: IMO there should be one worker type and one fighter type that can be created from internal dungeon resources, so as not to upset the balance of the game totally or create the possibility of unwinnable maps. All maps should have at least the possibility of winning them if the right strategies are used.

I agree, they should. My idea says that Imps are workers that works on basic things and you can make them easily, because you need to find any animal or creature from you can make new Imps, because they cost only 1 Life Essence. First creature workers could also come from animals/weak creatures at the beginning and they would be easy to find, what's more you have their creature's type Organs which if you would put for later when you got more Evil Points to unlock new creatures you could make nice army. So for example if you find a Rat you could make a creature from Rat Organs that is available in menu, we can make one as a Rat Blacksmith, other as simple wall digger, other as spellcaster, later even a strong warrior etc.

I think that every map should have any creatures a developer that are easy to catch and because there could not be some species on the map other species could give you chance to win the same like you would have creatures that are not available on the map.
I don't like in games that some of creatures are so strong then weaker starts to be useless and always these stronger will be favourite, so for what making weaker then, right?

Creatures usefulness in my idea is not depending on their cost, but on upkeep, equipment upgrades and needs as also their abilities, so even mega Cyclotaur could be easily owned by Ratmen that is well equipped and has very strong abilities against Cyclotaur.
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#35
Quote:Creatures usefulness in my idea is not depending on their cost, but on upkeep, equipment upgrades and needs as also their abilities, so even mega Cyclotaur could be easily owned by Ratmen that is well equipped and has very strong abilities against Cyclotaur.
I couldn't agree more. IMO creatures like cyclotars that would depend on a strong charge into battle could be weak against say, spearmen, (ie any creature armed with spears or other pole type weapons, as they take huge damage on the first attack by getting skewered on the spears as they're charging in to attack.
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#36
(02-02-2014, 11:33 AM)Seriously Unserious Wrote: I couldn't agree more. IMO creatures like cyclotars that would depend on a strong charge into battle could be weak against say, spearmen, (ie any creature armed with spears or other pole type weapons, as they take huge damage on the first attack by getting skewered on the spears as they're charging in to attack.

Good idea, hehe Cyclotaur has to approach enough close to you, but spears could be long enough to jab him from longer distance, until it be close enough to hit your spikeman, also if your creature has a shield and Cyclotaur hasn't, well now, who can be the winner? Smile
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#37
Well Sebt, +2 for you my man. This idea is well worked out and combines a lot of different aspects everyone said. Bravo!

I agree that the idea of different methods of 'creating units' would be awesome. It would give the game a more natural, extremely dynamic, feel and would not disturb sandboxmapping or balance.
Despite that every map is different and some enemy units may not occur you could easily have an alternative way of creating your army. Which would also make every game unique!

Having in the back of my mind that certain elements may not appear in a map, I guess with each method you mentioned you should have an equal tier-hierarchy. Meaning that strong creatures (unlock lvl 6) should be available in all Methods, such as the Necromancy Method (example: Undead Cyclotaur) and Fossil/Golem Method (example: Archaeopteryx).
But abilities may differ among the same tier so that you still want to use all Methods!

(01-02-2014, 04:38 PM)Sebt Wrote: ALIEN like? ZERG like? i like it.
Haha. Exactly what I was thinking at first!

EDIT
(01-02-2014, 02:27 PM)Sebt Wrote: - After throwing required Equipment items to DM, she starts to make an Egg (in our case Green Goblin Egg) from Organ(s), Life Essence. You could see how Eggs stored in Incubators are forming and growing.
Wouldn't it be a challenge if creatures are 'made' first without letting poor DarkMother swallowing a sword, and after hatching the creature can collect the weapon in the armory?
And if you don't have the weapon? Maybe a weapon switch (might create interesting variety), or simply that the creature will find a new occupation AKA Beer!

Which also bring me with the question if captured/killed creatures with weapons can be looted of their weapons?
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#38
Yes, everything is about balance, creatures on certain "level category" could have almost the same abilities at their level, but for example Humans can be more effective against Demons, just because their abilities has additional fallout using them against Demons or after reaching certain level from gathering experience they could get new very different to the the creatures on the same level category abilities. The challenge is to balance everything to that degree where you can always win with actual creatures on the map.

My additional idea is to be able to make or find portals that calls different creatures, like in DK 1, however there could be a problem with balancing it and this would be contrary to the existing Chain Production principle.
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#39
I will only focus on Method 1 as it is about the Dark Mother, that is what is prioritised the most at this moment.
So if I understand you correctly Sebt:
- Prisoners can be feed to the Dark Mother.
- The Dark Mother will get life essence from these creatures as well as well as their organs.
- The Dark Mother can also get life essence from regular critters (that re-spawns in the dungeon, they are unlimited), but no organs.
- The life essence can be used to make Imps.
- The EP is used to unlock creatures so that you can make them (Not sure if this cost EP, or that you only need to reach a certain level of EP before the creature gets unlocked.)
- By mixing organs from the creatures feed to the Dark Mother, the player will be able to create creatures.
- If the creatures created are naturally equipped with swords and armour, these items needs to feed to the Dark Mother as well before the new creature can be made.
- There will be a waiting period for the player before the creature will be spewed out in form of a egg growing and hatching inside the Dark Mother.

Not sure if you meant that when mixing organs to create creature will mean that you spend these organs and will have to capture new creatures and feed them to the Dark Mother, if that is the case, then we have an issue with that enemies are limited on the map, we could have enemy generators (as the portals) on the map, but I think it limits the player possibility to create creature to much.

If you meant that the organs works as blueprints and the actual cost for the creature is life essence and the equipments, then it could work. I do like that the player could decide the equipments the creature will have before making him. But we could as well make it so that the creature could equip after he has been created so that we don't have to have two menus for equipping creatures, one when he is created, and one when he wants to upgrade his weapons and armours in the blacksmith. So that the orcs could be created without any weapons from start, then the player will have to equip them, I think that is a much more straight forward way to go. Besides, the orcs should be able to fight even if they have no weapons. One thing that makes me worried is the organs, we would be very limited in designing creatures if their appearance was depending on what organs the enemies have. I would prefer a more simple solution of just capturing creatures, feed them to the Dark Mother, and the Dark Mother will be able to make her own version of them, so that all creatures made by CobraMode could be used as both enemy and minion. Just thing about it, right now the player only have the orcs as minions, if we have it so that the player could create the enemy creatures as his own also we would already have the Impanzees, the Orcs, the Cyclotaurs, the Fishman, the upcoming Piggeh and the Rogue as both enemy as and ally. The player would not be able to make humans!

So to make this work, as I see it, the EP will be replaced by Critter food mainly. The player capture an enemy, feed him to the Dark Mother, the Dark Mother will be able to create that creature type when she has enough Life Essence in her. The life essence will come from feeding her enemies and critters, but as the enemies are a very limited resource in the map, the main food-source will be critters.
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#40
How about also using the laboratory to unlock the hybrid creature types? to unlock say, a cyclotaur, you'd need to find a cow/bull and a cyclops type creature to perform the hybridization experiments, eventually culminating in the 2 creatures being combined into the hybrid form, in this case a cyclotaur, if there is a hybrid type that exists for those 2 creatures, otherwise the experiments simply fail.

Once unlocked, more can be created using the methods outlined above. If you can't find all the component creatures then you simply can't unlock that creature type in that way, or it could mean that not all creature types are available to all maps, so sometimes you can't use a cyclotaur for example because there are none on the map and one of the components to make them by experimenting is missing. Another map it may be some other creature that you can't make for this reason, so each map you have to be prepared to adjust your strategies according to what resources are available.
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#41
I modified my idea because there was a problem with getting more creatures than is available on the map and beginner creatures you can have or last idea obsolete my idea of using Managnetites and some other stuff, I think it's way much simpler now:


Basic Method

1. Essences & Dark Mother's Egg-like Blob Ltd. - You can make creatures only from blueprint-like thing which is an Essence - an item that describes creature's specie, it's something like replicable cells that contains DNA that can be multiplied. This item is not physically existing in the game - but when you got a new specie creature for a first time and that will be eaten by Dark Mother - you will see an animation of glowing sphere with certain "icon" of this specie or other mark over her body that "evaporates" after few seconds - and that means you can now make various creatures from this Essence in Creature's Menu or just by right-clicking on DM's body and chose from popped-out circle menu one of the creature to be made. You can get Essences from animals as well as from creatures, but making creatures from animals would require additional resources or more animals to make animal-origin creature.
- Munching process - After throwing prisoner(s) to Dark Mother's maw you can hear horrible screams of gobbling the victim, it's bursting like pop corn bones and loud chomp of throwing over victim's meat inside DM's maw.... When DM's ate a creature's of a new specie, after meal you get for example an Orc specie Essence (if eaten creature was an Orc, Troll (so an Elf too?), Goblin, Ogre etc).
- Egg-like Blobsss! - After that horrible process you get an Egg-like Blob! Yes, DM is spitting a new creature in a very gentle, known for her way - she spits out disgusting, gelatinous, blob (that is mixed with Essence's genetic material and DM's fluids) with a creature's Egg-like Blob. You can see her mucous around the spitted out a creature's Egg-like Blob. Depending on creature's "hatching" time it finally hatches, than tries to leave a blob film, get up, brush down from a dribbling mucous and go!

2. I won't be alone at the start - Because you don't have any creatures at the beginning you have always a Basic Essence that gives you ability to make Imps and other creatures that were set in map settings (you can set that map wouldn't have any of blueprint at the beginning too).

3. Catch me if you can - To catch a creature you need a pokéb... a Prison Room to where you will throw creatures into and have them alive there - so thanks to that be able to move it from Prison to everywhere you want - and to use one of the following method:
- If you have a creature(s): Use your creature(s) - fight with creatures and leave it with the 1% of it's HP to stun it, then take victim with your creature to the Prison. You can do it with any kind of creatures you want.
- If you have NOT any creature(s): Use traps - At the beginning you're able to make few primitive traps with you can catch & wrap the creatures - using traps like trap hole or press'n'cage trap after activating their Pressure Pads. Afterward, victim of our madness tricks are being stunned by your Imp and moved into Cages in Prison. ATTENTION! Traps that we can use at the beginning can catch only weak and small creatures (later maybe we could make better. Also there is a chance that if stunned before creatures wake up it can free itself and then you need to trap it again!
*Trap holes works like that: when victim is trapped it's wrapped by constructs and it tries to free itself, so until it won't free itself you have chance to stun it. Light weight/fast creatures can jump over holes if they're uncovered.
*Press'n'cage works like that: when creature is pressing a pad, it's caught to cage that came from tile below. Can free itself as above, so you need to be fast until cage would lost it's all durability points. Cage be easily destroyed by another creature, so you need to set your traps wisely... especially that trapping don't need from you to harm victims, so sometimes it's good to built traps near Prison and Dark Mother, but sometimes and can be treacherous.

4. Naked Newborners, but able to fight! - When you chose one or more creatures in the Creature's Menu to be made from DM newly born creature will be naked, without any equipment items like swords or armor. That doesn't mean it will be defenseless, because still creature can use it's abilities to fight and always has it's fist or tentacles or throw flames from it's nose etc... Creatures if you want to have equipped (to fight or work) need to take any equipment item from Racks made in Blacksmith. Note that some if actual creatures in game like Cyclotaur or Fishman don't need equipment to smash your armies.

5. What I need to make you? - Dark Mother can produce as many creatures you want, but remember that in the game resources are limited so you can make many creatures with weak equipment or some with very good equipment, the choice is yours. So... to make one creature you need to specific number of Evil Points (temporary name) to consume. If we make that EP means that are a DM's power, energy to make creatures they can start making creature(a) from Essences. What's more, as more creature of the same type (not whole specie, but i.e. Cyclotaur after Cyclotaur) the cost of this creature is growing, so this would limit player to make many copies of the same creature. Remember that Dark Mother can make flesh & blood, living creatures, only! The beginning creature's cost won't depend whether a creature is better or not - but further it's upkeep, equipment, individual needs... and your own preferences. Wink

6. Take it out there! - To take and move a prisoner to Dark Mother sor for other evil purposes) you just need to do right-click on target prisoner and chose from menu (that appears like any other circle menus in Dwelvers) one of the available option, so for example "Take to the Dark Mother".
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#42
What could we ELSE do with our shakin'-pants prisoners? - additional methods:

Stealing Happiness and Blood Method
- With this method you can make creatures from other parts of the underworld that you can call from... prisoners.
- When you do a right-click on prisoner you can open a circle menu and from the one of few options there you can chose "Call a Demon", then from many different (depending on prisoner's creature type) creatures available we chose one, let it be a Magog.
- After clicking OK, that you're sure you want to make a Demon creature from this creature, there is send an order to Laboratory to make a mixture/potion of Demon Blood that cost some weed resource(s) and Blood of the victim.
- After sending an order, an Imp is going to Prison and do something very terrible... it takes something like syringe and... and... inject victim a virus of Sadness which will consume victim's whole happiness! By doing it sucks victim's blood to that syringe and take it to Laboratory when prepare a Demon Blood.
- When victim is losing it's happiness, (there could be an animation that it's colors turns to gray and it has sad animation), and has lowered it to minimum, then this sadness slowly make this creature mad... seriously unserious mad. It starts to panic, screaming, walking like paralized around the Prison. When it lost whole willings to life (at around 1% of it's life) it will fall on the floor and then an Imp is going to victim with ready Demon Blood and inject it to a victim.
- After injection, victim dies and from it... a new Demon (in our case Magog) is born!:

Summoned from The Pit of The Damned Method
- You can get from there Demons or Fire creatures like Balrog, Hellcat, Ifrit, Horned Demon, Gog, etc. from YOUR creatures doing something like in DK you do with Temple: sacrifice certain number of specific creatures from specific category there to get one of the Demon or Fire creature.
*Remember that after sacrificing creatures you get some burning after resources from them (like Charcoal or so).

Raised from Corpses stored in Boneyard Method
- Nosferatu, Zombie etc. Requires: dead bodies stored in Zikkurat (Boneyard Room Building),
- Skeleton, Lich etc. from Skeleton Transformer (like this in HoMM 3) - Requires: insert any living creature from certain category (i.e. living, magic, undead) there to get one of them.

Using Managnetite (or other specific stone) Method
- Behemoth, Archaeopteryx etc. from Fossil Items that you can rarely find in the ground. To make them alive you need to resurrect Fossil creature in a special Room Bulding (for example in Laboratory)
- Golems etc. like above, but instead of Fossil Items you need to use just different resources and Managnetites to make them.

Mercenary Camp and Bob Method
- You can find some strange places where you can find different, even unspoken, uncommon or just ordinary creatures that you can buy/hire for gold or another resources - these are Mercenary Camps.
- You can kill every creatures there if you wish of course... but if we would have Reputation Meter in game, killing them could lower your reputation in their faction...
- Bob is someone who in comparison to MCs is walking around Dungeons and that offers some creatures for gold or another resources.

Torture Room Method
- Right-click on prisoner and chose "Take this bitc...", akhm "Take this nonentity to Torture Room".
- Imp or creature that works at Prison Room as it's guardian will stun prisoner and take to the Torture Room where you can just convert victim to your side.

Awake from sleep Method
- Some places hides remains of ancient civilizations... and some no flesh and blood ancient creatures that ancients used as weapons or carriers.
- To activate them you need to do Right-click on ancient creature and chose "Bring it back to live".
- After doing above, an Imp takes from a Storage Room certain number of Managnetites and brings it to that ancient creature to make it live under your control.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#43
(06-02-2014, 04:49 PM)Sebt Wrote: 1. Essences & Dark Mother's Egg-like Blob Ltd. - You can make creatures only from blueprint-like thing which is an Essence - an item that describes creature's specie, it's something like replicable cells that contains DNA that can be multiplied. This item is not physically existing in the game - but when you got a new specie creature for a first time and that will be eaten by Dark Mother - you will see an animation of glowing sphere with certain "icon" of this specie or other mark over her body that "evaporates" after few seconds - and that means you can now make various creatures from this Essence in Creature's Menu or just by right-clicking on DM's body and chose from popped-out circle menu one of the creature to be made. You can get Essences from animals as well as from creatures, but making creatures from animals would require additional resources or more animals to make animal-origin creature.

This is a good idea, it is simple and works well with the current development of the game Smile

(06-02-2014, 04:49 PM)Sebt Wrote: - Munching process - After throwing prisoner(s) to Dark Mother's maw you can hear horrible screams of gobbling the victim, it's bursting like pop corn bones and loud chomp of throwing over victim's meat inside DM's maw.... When DM's ate a creature's of a new specie, after meal you get for example an Orc specie Essence (if eaten creature was an Orc, Troll (so an Elf too?), Goblin, Ogre etc).
- Egg-like Blobsss! - After that horrible process you get an Egg-like Blob! Yes, DM is spitting a new creature in a very gentle, known for her way - she spits out disgusting, gelatinous, blob (that is mixed with Essence's genetic material and DM's fluids) with a creature's Egg-like Blob. You can see her mucous around the spitted out a creature's Egg-like Blob. Depending on creature's "hatching" time it finally hatches, than tries to leave a blob film, get up, brush down from a dribbling mucous and go!

I like the idea of having popping sounds from the DM stomage as she digest a creature. Also, having eggs being spewed out from the DM instead of creatures will make it simpler for me as I don't need the creature creation animation.

(06-02-2014, 04:49 PM)Sebt Wrote: 2. I won't be alone at the start - Because you don't have any creatures at the beginning you have always a Basic Essence that gives you ability to make Imps and other creatures that were set in map settings (you can set that map wouldn't have any of blueprint at the beginning too).

I am thinking that maybe the Dark Mother could start with being able to create certain creatures. It would work well in campaign mode, once she has learned how to make one creature it will follow her through the campaign, unless we replace the DM between maps.

(06-02-2014, 04:49 PM)Sebt Wrote: 3. Catch me if you can - To catch a creature you need a pokéb... a Prison Room to where you will throw creatures into and have them alive there - so thanks to that be able to move it from Prison to everywhere you want - and to use one of the following method:
- If you have a creature(s): Use your creature(s) - fight with creatures and leave it with the 1% of it's HP to stun it, then take victim with your creature to the Prison. You can do it with any kind of creatures you want.
- If you have NOT any creature(s): Use traps - At the beginning you're able to make few primitive traps with you can catch & wrap the creatures - using traps like trap hole or press'n'cage trap after activating their Pressure Pads. Afterward, victim of our madness tricks are being stunned by your Imp and moved into Cages in Prison. ATTENTION! Traps that we can use at the beginning can catch only weak and small creatures (later maybe we could make better. Also there is a chance that if stunned before creatures wake up it can free itself and then you need to trap it again!
*Trap holes works like that: when victim is trapped it's wrapped by constructs and it tries to free itself, so until it won't free itself you have chance to stun it. Light weight/fast creatures can jump over holes if they're uncovered.
*Press'n'cage works like that: when creature is pressing a pad, it's caught to cage that came from tile below. Can free itself as above, so you need to be fast until cage would lost it's all durability points. Cage be easily destroyed by another creature, so you need to set your traps wisely... especially that trapping don't need from you to harm victims, so sometimes it's good to built traps near Prison and Dark Mother, but sometimes and can be treacherous.

Yes, I am thinking about something very similar to DK and to the current implementation where the imps transport allies to their beds. We don't need to leave the enemy with 1% HP, when a creature gets hit and his HP goes down to zero he will fall to the ground, after that the Imps will have a certain time (maybe 1 minute) to transport the enemy to the prison, once the enemy has been transported to the prison he will get 1 HP, and the player will be able to right click him to get a options menu on what to do with him.

(06-02-2014, 04:49 PM)Sebt Wrote: 4. Naked Newborners, but able to fight! - When you chose one or more creatures in the Creature's Menu to be made from DM newly born creature will be naked, without any equipment items like swords or armor. That doesn't mean it will be defenseless, because still creature can use it's abilities to fight and always has it's fist or tentacles or throw flames from it's nose etc... Creatures if you want to have equipped (to fight or work) need to take any equipment item from Racks made in Blacksmith. Note that some if actual creatures in game like Cyclotaur or Fishman don't need equipment to smash your armies.

This is also an idea I like. Having the creatures born naked and weak then the player will have to rely on the training rooms and the armoury to cloth and train him. The creatures aren't born strong, they get strong.

(06-02-2014, 04:49 PM)Sebt Wrote: 5. What I need to make you? - Dark Mother can produce as many creatures you want, but remember that in the game resources are limited so you can make many creatures with weak equipment or some with very good equipment, the choice is yours. So... to make one creature you need to specific number of Evil Points (temporary name) to consume. If we make that EP means that are a DM's power, energy to make creatures they can start making creature(a) from Essences. What's more, as more creature of the same type (not whole specie, but i.e. Cyclotaur after Cyclotaur) the cost of this creature is growing, so this would limit player to make many copies of the same creature. Remember that Dark Mother can make flesh & blood, living creatures, only! The beginning creature's cost won't depend whether a creature is better or not - but further it's upkeep, equipment, individual needs... and your own preferences. Wink

Yeah, like it is now, that the production price for a creature depends on how many creature he already owns.

(06-02-2014, 04:49 PM)Sebt Wrote: 6. Take it out there! - To take and move a prisoner to Dark Mother sor for other evil purposes) you just need to do right-click on target prisoner and chose from menu (that appears like any other circle menus in Dwelvers) one of the available option, so for example "Take to the Dark Mother".

Precisely Big Grin
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#44
Sebt Wrote:Mercenary Camp and Bob Method
- You can find some strange places where you can find different, even unspoken, uncommon or just ordinary creatures that you can buy/hire for gold or another resources - these are Mercenary Camps.
- You can kill every creatures there if you wish of course... but if we would have Reputation Meter in game, killing them could lower your reputation in their faction...
- Bob is someone who in comparison to MCs is walking around Dungeons and that offers some creatures for gold or another resources.
I like this idea but IMO simply having caravans in general that can have an alignment or faction that they belong to so some can belong to dark merchants who are willing to trade with anyone who has something they want, even an evil overload of the underworld. You can also raid the caravans but that will cause you to lose reputation with the owning faction (if both features are included) and can lead to war, and that faction sending warriors/heroes) to attack your dungeon.
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The Golden One!
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#45
I do like the caravan idea, and I know that SU loves caravans Wink
Right now we have "Bob the merchant" or what ever we will call him Tongue Another way to replace Bob is to simply have caravans, these caravans can get plundered, but they will appear at random (just as Bob would), so there is no guarantee that the player will either catch the caravan or find the items they need in it when they have plundered it. And plundering caravans would cause the humans to get angry with us, and that makes them send down more and more enemies.

I sort of think of this like GTA, the more illegal things you do, the more "stars" you will get and with this more cops you will be after you. By killing the cops that hunts you, you will get even more "stars" and more cops will be after you. The only way to balance the situation is to hide and not let the cops find you. The same could be with caravans and the player hiding from the humans Wink
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