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Team News 2014.02.05 - BurningPet is leaving Towns
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Rikus Khan Offline
Antroot Farmer

Posts: 94
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 13
Post: #16
RE: A Letter from Developer - BurningPet is leaving Towns
I agree and disagree with the decision to give a discount to Towns purchasers (I am one). I disagree because it makes your association (and guilt) for their screw-up look worse than it is. However, gaining access to 200,000 paying indie-game players' emails and offering them a discount can be a HUGE financial benefit for Dwelvers development. If none of this money was going towards SMP in any way (may need a contractual addendum - if possible), a lot of these players will spend a couple bucks on the game. Some will want to wait and see a gold release. However, if only 10% (20,000) people pay $5 for the game it will be a win-win for players and for Dwelvers. I would guess more than 10% would pay that low amount and it would be a HUGE boost for the marketing of Dwelvers which in turn drives more sales.

On another note, Rasmus, I am super-impressed by your openness and willingness to take on this crazy issue you inherited. It really goes a long way to showing me what kind of man you are and the kind of morals you have. I know there are easier paths for you to take considering this issue (like not talking about it), but you have done your research and really tried to be fair and balanced in your approach even though you are in a very precarious situation. I applaud you and your efforts on this issue. Thank you for doing your very best to do the right thing for all involved. Three point one four one five nine two six five three five rep points to you.
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07-02-2014 11:45 PM
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Seriously Unserious Offline
The Ninja Dinosaur

Posts: 1.607
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 69
Post: #17
RE: A Letter from Developer - BurningPet is leaving Towns
I agree with you, Rasmus deserves all the reputation points we can give him. Smile Sadly I can only give them 1 point at a time though. Sad

but Rasmus, you got that +1 that's the most I can give you at any given time. Wink
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The Golden One!
08-02-2014 01:18 AM
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Drifter Offline
Dungeon Lord

Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2014
Reputation: 0
Post: #18
RE: A Letter from Developer - BurningPet is leaving Towns
Another Towns refugee here.

The more I see of Dwelvers, the more I regret its connection to SMP. I so want a successor to Dungeon Keeper and Dwelvers is looking great. This is a problem because I would rather not give Xavi another cent of mine, even indirectly.

A good discount on Dwelvers would make my own decision easier but, I do wonder if that could end up biting you. To offer a discount might give others the idea that the game is more closely tied to Towns than it is. Whatever your final choice, I appreciate the consideration you are giving to those of us who bought Towns.

I have to echo Hyrus though. Make sure any big issues are worked out before you launch this thing. Towns and games like it have left many people shy of pretty yet unfinished projects.

Finally, If everything Burningpet has told us recently is true, my respect for him is restored. I even sympathize with his position. That said, it might be time for Burningpet to die. I don't think that name will be good for Ben following that fiasco.
(This post was last modified: 09-02-2014 03:51 AM by Drifter.)
09-02-2014 03:31 AM
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burningpet Offline
Game & Graphics Designer
Dwelvers Game Designers

Posts: 39
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 24
Post: #19
RE: A Letter from Developer - BurningPet is leaving Towns
I have few objections to that suggestion:

1 - This is the internet and the connection will be made by someone, even if it wont be strictly obvious to the general public.

2 - This strongly implies i have something to hide, which i don't. while yes, Towns fiasco has ruined my reputation, i believe that reasonable people could understand this situation if they have access to information about it.

3 - By doing this, i conduct in deceiving actions. (which will even only make people further disbelieve in me and everyone i am associated with)
09-02-2014 07:27 AM
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Seriously Unserious Offline
The Ninja Dinosaur

Posts: 1.607
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 69
Post: #20
RE: A Letter from Developer - BurningPet is leaving Towns
(09-02-2014 03:31 AM)Drifter Wrote:  Another Towns refugee here.

The more I see of Dwelvers, the more I regret its connection to SMP. I so want a successor to Dungeon Keeper and Dwelvers is looking great. This is a problem because I would rather not give Xavi another cent of mine, even indirectly.

A good discount on Dwelvers would make my own decision easier but, I do wonder if that could end up biting you. To offer a discount might give others the idea that the game is more closely tied to Towns than it is. Whatever your final choice, I appreciate the consideration you are giving to those of us who bought Towns.

I have to echo Hyrus though. Make sure any big issues are worked out before you launch this thing. Towns and games like it have left many people shy of pretty yet unfinished projects.

Finally, If everything Burningpet has told us recently is true, my respect for him is restored. I even sympathize with his position. That said, it might be time for Burningpet to die. I don't think that name will be good for Ben following that fiasco.
You don't have to buy Dwelvers in such a way as to give SMP any money, as Burningpet explained in this thread on Steam, you don't have to support SMP to buy Dwelvers, if you buy it directly from Rasmus. So you have no need to boycott Dwelvers.

Burningpet Wrote:I have few objections to that suggestion:

1 - This is the internet and the connection will be made by someone, even if it wont be strictly obvious to the general public.

2 - This strongly implies i have something to hide, which i don't. while yes, Towns fiasco has ruined my reputation, i believe that reasonable people could understand this situation if they have access to information about it.

3 - By doing this, i conduct in deceiving actions. (which will even only make people further disbelieve in me and everyone i am associated with)
I have to admit, when I first heard about the Towns fiasco in the thread Muzzy posted here about a couple of months ago I started to have some serious doubts about you, but your conduct since that post has been exemplary. You have done everything in your power to motivate someone who clearly didn't want to be motivated to do the right thing, even when he clearly didn't want to do the right thing. IMO Towns would have been a whole lot worse if it hadn't been for your attempts to salvage it, futile as they may have turned out to be.

Even if your involvement with Towns, SMP and Xavi has tarnished your reputation, hiding the fact won't do anything to help you, unless it's to help you become more like Xavi and lose your ethics and integrity entirely. So far you seem to have managed to keep your ethics intact even under very trying circumstances and you're making the right decision to keep it that way.

Last fall I wrote an essay for a class on the topic of ethics which I people may find helpful under these circumstances, which I posted in:http://forum.dwelvers.com/showthread.php?tid=106&page=2

Here's a little video clip that I did a case study on earlier in that class that really inspired me to pursue the topic of ethics creating happiness last fall.



There's 20 other video clips in that series, all about a different aspect of ethics and how they promote happiness.
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The Golden One!
(This post was last modified: 09-02-2014 07:48 AM by Seriously Unserious.)
09-02-2014 07:34 AM
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Foxandxss Offline
Dungeon Lord

Posts: 11
Joined: Feb 2014
Reputation: 5
Post: #21
RE: A Letter from Developer - BurningPet is leaving Towns
Well, I just discovered this "problem" and I am going to give my thoughts.

First of all, you (Rasmus) shouldn't give anything to Towns owners. You're not the responsable for Xavi decisions and is he in an attempt to clear is conscience who should give Towns owner a free Dwelvers (paying from his pocket for sure).

You can't make everybody happy in this world, and this attempt is no different. I learned that in the hard way.

What can you achieve giving (let's say) 200 free copies of Dwelvers? First of all, as someone said before me, people will think that you're responsible for Towns and you feel guilty. Also, that will bring here 200 person that will watch every step you do to say: "I knew, you were going to fail us again" Again? There wasn't a first time even... But explain that to them.

Also, from those 200, maybe 50 wants the game, the other will just disturb and from those 50, they are potential buyers.

You can't do more of what you do. That 50 guys can come here, see what we do in the community, download the game for free, play it all the time they want and when the months pass and they need to buy the game, they will have their own opinion of you and the game to decide if they want to support you with money or not.

I think that that is the best outcome. You open the door to they to come, try the game (it is free), the possibility to chat with us here, comment about the game and if they feel happy with what they get, they will pay.

The other outcome is that some of them will think bad of Dwelvers, well, you will have to live with that and I don't think that giving a free copy will amend that. Can't make everybody happy!

About burningpet, I don't know you and well, I don't care about Towns because I have not played it. It is a shame that this experience have ruined your reputation, but reputation can be regained again. Working with Rasmus in Dwelvers I think you can clean your name.
09-02-2014 01:49 PM
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Drifter Offline
Dungeon Lord

Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2014
Reputation: 0
Post: #22
RE: A Letter from Developer - BurningPet is leaving Towns
Seriously - Thanks for that link. Ill give that a try.

Burningpet. I understand and I hope it works out for you. My suggestion came from reactions I read on other forums. Dwelvers is looking like a great game to have your name attached to so hopefully it will erase the damage done.
09-02-2014 05:05 PM
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