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Brainstorm Creature Mechanic - Creature groups and rally flags
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #1
Creature Mechanic - Creature groups and rally flags
Now when I have started to get a grasp on how it should work when grouping creature together I got a idea that should solve the issue with assigning only parts of the creatures to a rally flag instead of all of them at once.

I have gotten some complaints from people reviewing Dwelvers that it is tedious to have to enter the menu each time the player wants to see what and how many creatures he has in stock. The same goes for the items, but right now I only want to focus on the creatures.

So my idea is this, what if we had icons for each creature type owned by the player in a corner of the screen, these icons can be pretty small, I am thinking a forth of the icons shown in the creature menu. So even if the player have 15 different creature types it shouldn't take up that much room.

Each icon should have a number on it that shows how many creatures the player have, and by rightclicking the creature the camera should zoom in on one of the creatures location, when right clicking it again it should zoom in on the next creature location and so forth.

Now here is the interesting part. What if the player were to left click on the creature type and get a rally flag for it automatically? Then the player could send orcs in one direction and the impanzees in another.

On top of this the player should be able to have icons for the creature groups as well, these icons would work exactly the creature type icons just that the player will have the organized a little better for his own purposes. Maybe having a group with only melees he send to the front line while putting a rally flag for the ranged creatures a little bit behind.

So when a rally flag is put down, then a flag should appear on the creature icon, when the player left clicks it again the rally flag should disappear.

I am going to scetch something up later today on how this would look, I will just have to find room on the screen to put these icons Tongue
(This post was last modified: 23-08-2014 07:20 PM by Sebt.)
01-04-2014 04:35 AM
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Sebt Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
Quick creature bar
Well I think this may be the easiest way to solve problem of getting information how much creatures we have:
Just show creature icons on the top of screen like it is showed in Creature Inventory thread, but in normal game window too. Thanks to this and also by clicking one of the icon you could quickly open target creature's inventory. Smile
Number of each creature could be showed at the bottom of creature icon - or - if you would like to add more info like their status (idle/work/fight) you could set number of a creature in the top-left corner (like it is in elements periodic table) and statuses on the right side of icon, but I prefer to not show that, becaue there could be too many numbers close to each other, or we could set that player can choose to see statuses when hovering mouse on an icon or set to see them all the time.

Items bar?
For items I think we don't need any bar. Actually when I need to put something I need to search in tangle of icons those which indicates resources I need to put that thing, which is annoying, later Dwelvers there will be really much of them all... Smile
What I suggest is not to show them on any bar, but when you want to place something by hovering mouse on for example Skull Torch you'll see it's description, needed resources and in brackets how much do you have each of them available.

Grouping and Rally Flag
For grouping creatures I always appreciated option to just click on unit than handle "CTRL" and click "1" button to add unit to group number 1, then to remove it you need to do it once again. Then if you would send group 1 using Really Flag you could click just "1" button and you'll get an info which creatures are in group 1 and how many. How can you see this? Simply if in this group there are for example 2 Impanzees at the left-bottom side of Impanzee icon you'll see number 2 (maybe in different color just to recognize easier and faster which creatures are in group you choose). So after clicking "1" button you'll see number 1 on Rally Flag button which means that you chose group number 1 and after clicking on Rally Flag icon and placing Rally Flag wherever on the ground only creatures in group 1 will go there.

Don't have any other solution for these ATM, so let me know what's good what screams to be improved, especially that I prefer to have creature icons on the top side od the screen because all other corners are occupied, top-left by messages, top-right by minimap, bottom corners not, but there is menu, which will probably wider than now, so only top and right side left to be used.
I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy - The feasible plan to get rid of scarcity, poverty, and other incoming global issues.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2014 01:23 PM by Sebt.)
01-04-2014 01:08 PM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
(01-04-2014 04:35 AM)Rasmus Wrote:  ...what if we had icons for each creature type owned by the player in a corner of the screen, ..., I am thinking a forth of the icons shown in the creature menu....

Each icon should have a number on it that shows how many creatures the player have, and by rightclicking the creature the camera should zoom in on one of the creatures location, when right clicking it again it should zoom in on the next creature location...

What if the player were to left click on the creature type and get a rally flag for it automatically?

I think this is a good idea, but it seems backwards. When we consider most UIs, right clicking is usually action or menu whereas left click usually does nothing more than select. So Rally Flag would be right-click, Zoom to Creature would be left-click.

I prefer the positioning Sebt mentioned for the creature tiles tho. It may be that this is one of those need to see it in action before forming an opinion. Also I agree with Sebt on the Items part. We don't need to be constantly reminded how many items as the list of Items is going to get bigger as the game develops, and that will just eat up screen space. On the other hand, it may be nice to have an option in the Items Menu like what we have to stop production called 'Track Item'. This would place the Item Icon on the screen with quantity displayed. This would be useful for tracking the necessities like Food and Beer to make sure your supply doesn't get too low.

I would like to see the Items window modified in order to better see what Items by type I have. For instance:

Raw Resources:
[Stone Icon] [Wood Icon] [...] [...] .................

Manufactured Items:
[Bread Icon] [Beer Icon] [...] [...] ...............

Halt All Production [Y/N Checkbox]

Weapons and Armor:
[Axe Icon] [Shield Icon] [...] [...] ..............

Halt All Production [Y/N Checkbox]


* Sorry I went a bit off-topic there *
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2014 03:48 PM by Mello Tonin.)
01-04-2014 03:42 PM
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Seriously Unserious Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
First of all, I'm going to link to a thread about a very similar topic: Game Mechanic - Assign Squads

Quote:I would like to see the Items window modified in order to better see what Items by type I have. For instance:

Raw Resources:
[Stone Icon] [Wood Icon] [...] [...] .................

Manufactured Items:
[Bread Icon] [Beer Icon] [...] [...] ...............

Halt All Production [Y/N Checkbox]

Weapons and Armor:
[Axe Icon] [Shield Icon] [...] [...] ..............

Halt All Production [Y/N Checkbox]

O/T or not, I love that suggestion. In fact, if you hadn't suggested that, I would have.

Quote:Quick creature bar
I think this is definitely important, knowing how many creatures I have at a glance is vital info.

Quote:Items bar?
Again, I agree with you, the more I think about how many items are going to be in the game down the road, the more I think that having an items bar would be a bad idea. Or, an items bar could be shown only when using a build tool to show how many of the required items are currently available and how many are needed for construction. Also, as Mellow Tonin said, items could be added to a track items list and those items could be displayed on an items bar as well, so the items bar would only show a very limited number of items and only on an as-needed basis.

Quote:Grouping and Rally Flag
On this topic, I'll re-post my message from another thread here:
Seriously Unserious Wrote:I'd like to see equipment profiles and creature groups (ie squads) be handled separately so it's possible to create squads with a variety of different creatures and equipment sets. If a squad consists of nothing but archers, for example it would be very vulnerable unless another squad, made of of some sort of malee equipment could also be sent to the same place, which would create too much micromanagement in a game not designed to support that level of micromanagement, so a squad would need to have a balanced set of equipment and skills on its own.

So a squad could be assembled by setting how many members of each equipment profile you want in that squad and the game would automatically assign the right number as soon as their available, and any that can't be assigned right away would be handled as vacant slots waiting to be filled, handled by some sort of queue system. Individual creatures should also be able to be assigned to a squad, for cases where you want an experienced member to build the squad around or a creature with special equipment, such as a unique weapon or armor.
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01-04-2014 11:34 PM
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
(01-04-2014 01:08 PM)Sebt Wrote:   Quick creature bar
Well I think this may be the easiest way to solve problem of getting information how much creatures we have:
Just show creature icons on the top of screen like it is showed in Creature Inventory thread, but in normal game window too. Thanks to this and also by clicking one of the icon you could quickly open target creature's inventory. Smile

Yeah, I want it as simple as possible, only their face, a number, and maybe a flag if the rally flag for them are active.

(01-04-2014 01:08 PM)Sebt Wrote:  Items bar?
For items I think we don't need any bar. Actually when I need to put something I need to search in tangle of icons those which indicates resources I need to put that thing, which is annoying, later Dwelvers there will be really much of them all... Smile
What I suggest is not to show them on any bar, but when you want to place something by hovering mouse on for example Skull Torch you'll see it's description, needed resources and in brackets how much do you have each of them available.

I agree, besides, this is nothing urgent IMO, this can be addressed later.

(01-04-2014 01:08 PM)Sebt Wrote:  Grouping and Rally Flag
For grouping creatures I always appreciated option to just click on unit than handle "CTRL" and click "1" button to add unit to group number 1, then to remove it you need to do it once again. Then if you would send group 1 using Really Flag you could click just "1" button and you'll get an info which creatures are in group 1 and how many. How can you see this? Simply if in this group there are for example 2 Impanzees at the left-bottom side of Impanzee icon you'll see number 2 (maybe in different color just to recognize easier and faster which creatures are in group you choose). So after clicking "1" button you'll see number 1 on Rally Flag button which means that you chose group number 1 and after clicking on Rally Flag icon and placing Rally Flag wherever on the ground only creatures in group 1 will go there.

The problem here is that the player can't select more than one creature at a time, I don't know if this is wrong, but that is how it is atm. The "ctrl+1..2..3" could still be an option for fast access to the rally flag, but to assign them that way will be a little harder and will have to wait for future updates.

(01-04-2014 01:08 PM)Sebt Wrote:  Don't have any other solution for these ATM, so let me know what's good what screams to be improved, especially that I prefer to have creature icons on the top side od the screen because all other corners are occupied, top-left by messages, top-right by minimap, bottom corners not, but there is menu, which will probably wider than now, so only top and right side left to be used.

Hmm, I am trying to make them fit at the top.

(01-04-2014 03:42 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  I think this is a good idea, but it seems backwards. When we consider most UIs, right clicking is usually action or menu whereas left click usually does nothing more than select. So Rally Flag would be right-click, Zoom to Creature would be left-click.

True, I will switch it around Tongue Why I thought about it backwards is because of DK where the creatures and buildings are zoomed in with right clicking.

(01-04-2014 03:42 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  On the other hand, it may be nice to have an option in the Items Menu like what we have to stop production called 'Track Item'. This would place the Item Icon on the screen with quantity displayed. This would be useful for tracking the necessities like Food and Beer to make sure your supply doesn't get too low.

Hmm, tracking items. You mean like zooming in on them or have them "very visible" with icons hovering them? The item type you want to track that is...

(01-04-2014 03:42 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  I would like to see the Items window modified in order to better see what Items by type I have. For instance:

Raw Resources:
[Stone Icon] [Wood Icon] [...] [...] .................

Manufactured Items:
[Bread Icon] [Beer Icon] [...] [...] ...............

Halt All Production [Y/N Checkbox]

Weapons and Armor:
[Axe Icon] [Shield Icon] [...] [...] ..............

Halt All Production [Y/N Checkbox]

* Sorry I went a bit off-topic there *

Hmm, yeah a little off-topic, but still very interesting, the thing is that I have been thinking about categorize and update the items menu in the next few days. The reason is also that I want the player to be able to send out orders on weapons and armours to the armoury through it. Like selecting a sword and then just add or remove orders, just like the creatures. I am a little torn if I want a separate menu for this or if the item menu is enough.

(01-04-2014 11:34 PM)Seriously Unserious Wrote:  First of all, I'm going to link to a thread about a very similar topic: Game Mechanic - Assign Squads

Ahh sorry, I remember that something like this was posted somewhere, but I couldn't find it at first, should have looked harder Confused

(01-04-2014 11:34 PM)Seriously Unserious Wrote:  
Quote:Grouping and Rally Flag
On this topic, I'll re-post my message from another thread here:
Seriously Unserious Wrote:I'd like to see equipment profiles and creature groups (ie squads) be handled separately so it's possible to create squads with a variety of different creatures and equipment sets. If a squad consists of nothing but archers, for example it would be very vulnerable unless another squad, made of of some sort of malee equipment could also be sent to the same place, which would create too much micromanagement in a game not designed to support that level of micromanagement, so a squad would need to have a balanced set of equipment and skills on its own.

So a squad could be assembled by setting how many members of each equipment profile you want in that squad and the game would automatically assign the right number as soon as their available, and any that can't be assigned right away would be handled as vacant slots waiting to be filled, handled by some sort of queue system. Individual creatures should also be able to be assigned to a squad, for cases where you want an experienced member to build the squad around or a creature with special equipment, such as a unique weapon or armor.

Hmm, so the idea I presented above will allow the player to create squads with different creatures and equipments. But I am not so sure about having the squads created after the equipment the creatures wear, the main issue here is that the player would have less control over the squads, because they always need to check so that the squad is strong enough / filled up before they send them to battle. Also, what if you want several archer squads, maybe one which is stronger and slower and one that is weaker and faster, you wouldn't be able to control what creature types will fill the squad and that could be annoying. Well, it is somewhat possible to control it by only equipping certain creatures with bows that you want in that squad, but I feel like there is too many things that can go wrong.
02-04-2014 09:27 AM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
(02-04-2014 09:27 AM)Rasmus Wrote:  Hmm, tracking items. You mean like zooming in on them or have them "very visible" with icons hovering them? The item type you want to track that is...

This would be like the creature icons as far as their visibility. So say I select Beer and Gold to track because I'm looking for a certain amount before I train up some Orcs. I would see small icons somewhere on the normal game screen like the creatures icons for both Beer and Gold with their quantity displayed.
02-04-2014 03:06 PM
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Sebt Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
(02-04-2014 09:27 AM)Rasmus Wrote:  The problem here is that the player can't select more than one creature at a time, I don't know if this is wrong, but that is how it is atm. The "ctrl+1..2..3" could still be an option for fast access to the rally flag, but to assign them that way will be a little harder and will have to wait for future updates.

And that's OK that player can't select more than one unit, you don't need that either when it comes to grouping.
Just select one target unit and click CTRL + 1, then select another creature and then CTRL + 1, now you have 2 units in group 1. Piece of cake.
To recognise which creature belongs to which group there could be for example a small indicator (number of group it belongs to) when hovering on creature.

(02-04-2014 03:06 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  This would be like the creature icons as far as their visibility. So say I select Beer and Gold to track because I'm looking for a certain amount before I train up some Orcs. I would see small icons somewhere on the normal game screen like the creatures icons for both Beer and Gold with their quantity displayed.

That's cool idea. Many mmo games has mechanism of tracking items or killing monsters in their quest, but I prefer this from civilization game - I liked very much that I could set a goal for discovering new techs, so I could track easily which technology I need to discover to unlock my goal, so Mello and Rasmus - how about setting a goal for resource(s) that will track items?
This could work like this - resources that are your goal may or not may shown on the screen under the minimap (depending on settings player made for this to show or to not show this), when you reach this amount of resource(s) that was set as goal you'll get a message or icon of set resource(s) will start to glow.
I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy - The feasible plan to get rid of scarcity, poverty, and other incoming global issues.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2014 05:45 PM by Sebt.)
02-04-2014 05:36 PM
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Seriously Unserious Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
Rasmus Wrote:Hmm, so the idea I presented above will allow the player to create squads with different creatures and equipments. But I am not so sure about having the squads created after the equipment the creatures wear, the main issue here is that the player would have less control over the squads, because they always need to check so that the squad is strong enough / filled up before they send them to battle. Also, what if you want several archer squads, maybe one which is stronger and slower and one that is weaker and faster, you wouldn't be able to control what creature types will fill the squad and that could be annoying. Well, it is somewhat possible to control it by only equipping certain creatures with bows that you want in that squad, but I feel like there is too many things that can go wrong.
First of all, checking whether or not a unit is strong enough to handle a battle before sending it into battle is standard practice and simple common sense. I do that now, I just don't have control over who goes into battle and who doesn't. It's either anyone who just happens to be in the area at the time, or it's send everyone into battle all at once with no regard to defense.

The idea here actually gives the player more control over what a group is made up of. You select a creature type/equipment profile, and assign a number to it. If you only want lightly equipped, fast archers, you'd only assign an equipment profile that matches that, for example, orcs equipped with bows, and leather armor. If you wanted a heavier type of archer, you could assemble a squad of only orcs using heavy crossbows, chainmail and steel helmets, for example, they'd hit harder, but shoot slower and move slower, but due to the heavier armor also take more hits.

But what if you want a balanced squad? If you can only have 1 type of creature or equipment profile, that's impossible. So if you wanted a squad that consists of some medium infantry (swordsmen), some pikemen and some archers, then you'd just set it up that way, by setting how many of each type you want, say 5 med infantry, 3 pikemen and 4 archers, and that's exactly what that squad would have, when it's at full strength, but if you don't have enough creatures or equipment to fill the squad it may take a little time to recruit more creatures from the DM and equip them. Also, if a squad suffers losses it may be reduced below full strength and need replacements to reinforce it. Squads below full strength could easily be highlighted in a different colour or with a special graphic to make them easy to spot so you could have the opportunity to think twice about sending a weakened squad into a fight. Each squad could also show a unique ID number and could have an optional squad pannel to display all squads, in the same way individual creatures could be displayed. In fact, this could be part of the features of the creatures panel Sebt proposed earlier, with a button to toggle its display between showing creatures by type, equipment profile or squad.

Squads would also create a quick way of assigning a group of creatures to a task or to a room, such as assigning one or more squads to a guard post or setting up a fixed patrol route and assigning 1 or more squads to it.
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03-04-2014 04:03 AM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
Yeah Sebt, I like that idea expansion.

As far as squads/grouping goes, I don't know that having another number floating around on them is going to make life easier since they already have the level number floating around on them. Now maybe we could modify the float over the creature so we have something like this:

[Image: GFF3.png]
03-04-2014 04:03 PM
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
(02-04-2014 03:06 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  This would be like the creature icons as far as their visibility. So say I select Beer and Gold to track because I'm looking for a certain amount before I train up some Orcs. I would see small icons somewhere on the normal game screen like the creatures icons for both Beer and Gold with their quantity displayed.

Gottya, that is a nice idea Smile But somehow I would like this option to be more accessible more than from the menu, it could get very annoying having to go back and forth in the menu to enable / disable it..

(02-04-2014 05:36 PM)Sebt Wrote:  And that's OK that player can't select more than one unit, you don't need that either when it comes to grouping.
Just select one target unit and click CTRL + 1, then select another creature and then CTRL + 1, now you have 2 units in group 1. Piece of cake.
To recognise which creature belongs to which group there could be for example a small indicator (number of group it belongs to) when hovering on creature.

Sounds great! This should be very simple to implement.

(02-04-2014 05:36 PM)Sebt Wrote:  That's cool idea. Many mmo games has mechanism of tracking items or killing monsters in their quest, but I prefer this from civilization game - I liked very much that I could set a goal for discovering new techs, so I could track easily which technology I need to discover to unlock my goal, so Mello and Rasmus - how about setting a goal for resource(s) that will track items?
This could work like this - resources that are your goal may or not may shown on the screen under the minimap (depending on settings player made for this to show or to not show this), when you reach this amount of resource(s) that was set as goal you'll get a message or icon of set resource(s) will start to glow.

I like the idea of showing the items on the minimap as well Smile

(03-04-2014 04:03 AM)Seriously Unserious Wrote:  First of all, checking whether or not a unit is strong enough to handle a battle before sending it into battle is standard practice and simple common sense. I do that now, I just don't have control over who goes into battle and who doesn't. It's either anyone who just happens to be in the area at the time, or it's send everyone into battle all at once with no regard to defense.

The idea here actually gives the player more control over what a group is made up of. You select a creature type/equipment profile, and assign a number to it. If you only want lightly equipped, fast archers, you'd only assign an equipment profile that matches that, for example, orcs equipped with bows, and leather armor. If you wanted a heavier type of archer, you could assemble a squad of only orcs using heavy crossbows, chainmail and steel helmets, for example, they'd hit harder, but shoot slower and move slower, but due to the heavier armor also take more hits.

I agree, the player would have more control over the groups and what they wear. But the issue is that the player would have to rely on creatures to get equipped correctly. I like the idea, but I have a very strong feeling that the creatures armours and weapons will be pretty scattered, the player will say to the blacksmith to create the specific items but the player will also find other items in treasure chests and more. Also, maybe the player is out of iron and have to create leather armour for the archers but still want them in the same group, this would mean that the player would have to create several equipment profiles for every group. Because of the number of equipment slots and number of items to equip in them there can be hundreds of different equipment configurations.

I like the idea a lot because the groups will refill themselves without the players interference, but I have it really hard to see how this will work smoothly, a lot of creatures will have equipment profiles that don't match the equipment profiles, and creating a new equipment profile for each of these creatures will be very hard work.

One way to solve this is that all creatures that don't belong to a group will be highlighted somehow in the group menu so that the player easily just can drag them to a group.

(03-04-2014 04:03 AM)Seriously Unserious Wrote:  But what if you want a balanced squad? If you can only have 1 type of creature or equipment profile, that's impossible. So if you wanted a squad that consists of some medium infantry (swordsmen), some pikemen and some archers, then you'd just set it up that way, by setting how many of each type you want, say 5 med infantry, 3 pikemen and 4 archers, and that's exactly what that squad would have, when it's at full strength, but if you don't have enough creatures or equipment to fill the squad it may take a little time to recruit more creatures from the DM and equip them. Also, if a squad suffers losses it may be reduced below full strength and need replacements to reinforce it. Squads below full strength could easily be highlighted in a different colour or with a special graphic to make them easy to spot so you could have the opportunity to think twice about sending a weakened squad into a fight. Each squad could also show a unique ID number and could have an optional squad pannel to display all squads, in the same way individual creatures could be displayed. In fact, this could be part of the features of the creatures panel Sebt proposed earlier, with a button to toggle its display between showing creatures by type, equipment profile or squad.

Squads would also create a quick way of assigning a group of creatures to a task or to a room, such as assigning one or more squads to a guard post or setting up a fixed patrol route and assigning 1 or more squads to it.

Once a creature have been assigned to a group he will follow that groups' equipment profile, the problem is that all newly created creatures will follow the creature type equipment profile, which means that the player will have to assign all new creatures to different groups. So what about this? If I trashed the whole creature type equipment profile and only have groups, these groups could assign creatures to themselves according to a percentage the player set. So in one group the player wants ranged orcs and impanzees, then the player can set 100% orcs and 100% impanzees to that group which means that all impanzees and orcs will get auto assigned to that group and follow its equipment profile.

If I understand you correctly this is almost the same as you are purposing with one exception, and that is that the creature gets assigned to the group before they have the equipment. With this idea the player can see how many creatures are in a group, and how close they are to the equipment profile with a percentage value, also, the player could see the medium level value of the creatures in the group.


(03-04-2014 04:03 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  Yeah Sebt, I like that idea expansion.

As far as squads/grouping goes, I don't know that having another number floating around on them is going to make life easier since they already have the level number floating around on them. Now maybe we could modify the float over the creature so we have something like this:

[Image: GFF3.png]

I like that graphic, but the Squad number will have to be more visible somehow. Maybe the red bar at the bottom could show the creatures happiness (if the are well rested and so on.) Then we could maybe have the group on the right so that we could have a big letter or number.
04-04-2014 04:27 PM
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Seriously Unserious Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
Quote:So what about this? If I trashed the whole creature type equipment profile and only have groups, these groups could assign creatures to themselves according to a percentage the player set. So in one group the player wants ranged orcs and impanzees, then the player can set 100% orcs and 100% impanzees to that group which means that all impanzees and orcs will get auto assigned to that group and follow its equipment profile.
Now that's getting closer to what I'm talking about. As for the percentages, how about this? Define a total number of creatures you want a group to have and set the percentages of each class or type of warrior you want so that the percentages all add up to 100%, that way you have some control over how strong any particular group gets, so if you want a small, fast patrol group you can cap it at just a few fast creatures with light weapons an armor suited to moving quickly and spotting enemies at greater distances then most creatures or groups normally are. If you want a mighty army to attack your enemies, you can set a group up to be large and consist of a mix of fast, light soldiers (advance scouts/skirmishers) and powerful, but slow shock troops and archers (the main assault force). Depending on how your creatures and equipment is allocated, you can take on different strategies, by either setting up many smaller groups suited to exploring, patrolling and raiding, or fewer larger groups suitable to invasion, conquest and destruction of our enemies (or repelling a large scale assault on you by an enemy).

This means the player can use the assign squads feature to respond to different strategies and needs, by creating massive armies to invade/repel invasions to small, fast scouts to explore and patrol. Which way you go depends on your available resources, needs and preferences.

As for the other concern you mentioned, about there being too many equipment combinations, I can see this becoming a problem in a mature game where a lot of new equipments have been researched. What you suggest above is one possible solution to this issue, another could be to be able to declare an equipment profile and equipment obsolete if something comparable but purely better is available. For example, you start out with knives as the small, edged malee weapon of choice for impanzees, and later on a new, better version is invented, the dagger, so you declare the knife as obsolete (no-one will make any new knives any more and all profiles that use the knife can have an graphic or tag of some sort flagging that the knife is obsolete so it can be updated to use the new daggers instead, or even have an old profile no longer is use be declared obsolete so that no one else can be assigned it any more but anyone who already has it won't suddenly lose all their equipment, but can be flagged that some of their equipment is obsolete so they can be upgraded to a new more modern profile later on.

Again, it would also be very helpful to have the ability to recycle or destroy unwanted items that clog up the stores and can never be used because there's way more then will ever be needed. This isn't as common in some of my later 0.6c games but it still can happen that stores get filled up with an overabundance of some items to the point where needed items can't be stored or excessive stores are needed to keep junk around, simply because there's nothing you can do with it.
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The Golden One!
04-04-2014 11:21 PM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
(04-04-2014 04:27 PM)Rasmus Wrote:  ...Maybe the red bar at the bottom could show the creatures happiness (if the are well rested and so on.) Then we could maybe have the group on the right so that we could have a big letter or number.

So something like this?

[Image: GHGd.png]

I used Greek letters because having a number there may get confusing for the group/squad designation. Also added an indicator to show what type of group/squad this is. So you see the top belongs to a mining group and the bottom belongs to a combat squad.
05-04-2014 06:44 PM
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Rasmus Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
(04-04-2014 11:21 PM)Seriously Unserious Wrote:  Now that's getting closer to what I'm talking about. As for the percentages, how about this? Define a total number of creatures you want a group to have and set the percentages of each class or type of warrior you want so that the percentages all add up to 100%, that way you have some control over how strong any particular group gets, so if you want a small, fast patrol group you can cap it at just a few fast creatures with light weapons an armor suited to moving quickly and spotting enemies at greater distances then most creatures or groups normally are. If you want a mighty army to attack your enemies, you can set a group up to be large and consist of a mix of fast, light soldiers (advance scouts/skirmishers) and powerful, but slow shock troops and archers (the main assault force). Depending on how your creatures and equipment is allocated, you can take on different strategies, by either setting up many smaller groups suited to exploring, patrolling and raiding, or fewer larger groups suitable to invasion, conquest and destruction of our enemies (or repelling a large scale assault on you by an enemy).

This means the player can use the assign squads feature to respond to different strategies and needs, by creating massive armies to invade/repel invasions to small, fast scouts to explore and patrol. Which way you go depends on your available resources, needs and preferences.

As for the other concern you mentioned, about there being too many equipment combinations, I can see this becoming a problem in a mature game where a lot of new equipments have been researched. What you suggest above is one possible solution to this issue, another could be to be able to declare an equipment profile and equipment obsolete if something comparable but purely better is available. For example, you start out with knives as the small, edged malee weapon of choice for impanzees, and later on a new, better version is invented, the dagger, so you declare the knife as obsolete (no-one will make any new knives any more and all profiles that use the knife can have an graphic or tag of some sort flagging that the knife is obsolete so it can be updated to use the new daggers instead, or even have an old profile no longer is use be declared obsolete so that no one else can be assigned it any more but anyone who already has it won't suddenly lose all their equipment, but can be flagged that some of their equipment is obsolete so they can be upgraded to a new more modern profile later on.

This is very good, now I think we are talking the same language again Tongue
I will sketch something up tonight I think, I have some news I am about to get out there, but I think I will have to wait with it until tomorrow Smile

(04-04-2014 11:21 PM)Seriously Unserious Wrote:  Again, it would also be very helpful to have the ability to recycle or destroy unwanted items that clog up the stores and can never be used because there's way more then will ever be needed. This isn't as common in some of my later 0.6c games but it still can happen that stores get filled up with an overabundance of some items to the point where needed items can't be stored or excessive stores are needed to keep junk around, simply because there's nothing you can do with it.

This is a very good idea I think. Destroy unwanted items to regain its material I think will come very natural in the game, and it would be easy to implement together with a "craft items menu". +2 to you Wink

(05-04-2014 06:44 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote:  
(04-04-2014 04:27 PM)Rasmus Wrote:  ...Maybe the red bar at the bottom could show the creatures happiness (if the are well rested and so on.) Then we could maybe have the group on the right so that we could have a big letter or number.

So something like this?

[Image: GHGd.png]

I used Greek letters because having a number there may get confusing for the group/squad designation. Also added an indicator to show what type of group/squad this is. So you see the top belongs to a mining group and the bottom belongs to a combat squad.

This is very good Mello Big Grin +2 to you Smile
I have been thinking a little about the group/squad icons. When creating a squad the player could also have the option to assign a icon to it from a larger library of icons in the game. So maybe these icons could consist of a icon of a bow / sword / shield / healing(+) / fireball for example, then the player could assign the icon to the squad he think fits its purpose the best. So lets say we have two fighting squads and one ranged squad, then the player could assign the "sword icon" to the two fighting squads, and as there are two of the same icon it will also get a letter assigned to it, then the "bow icon" could be assigned to the ranged squad. This will make it very easy and intuitive for the player to know what squad do what. On top of this I have also made it so that the rally flags for specific creature types and squads will have the creatures icon on it or the squads icon, but this will be presented in the news tomorrow Smile
06-04-2014 06:01 PM
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Mello Tonin Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
Thanks, yeah I was thinking having an icon to signify what type of group/squad it was would look nicer than just having an indicator saying 'Group 1,a,or whatever'. I really liked the idea SU had where there was some kind of indicator of group strength too, so you know if they are ready for battle or should stay rested. I wouldn't think it would be too difficult to get the average HP of the group members and have that represented with a meter like the XP meter.
06-04-2014 09:07 PM
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Seriously Unserious Offline
The Ninja Dinosaur

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Post: #15
RE: Creature groups and rally flags
Rasmus Wrote:I have been thinking a little about the group/squad icons. When creating a squad the player could also have the option to assign a icon to it from a larger library of icons in the game. So maybe these icons could consist of a icon of a bow / sword / shield / healing(+) / fireball for example, then the player could assign the icon to the squad he think fits its purpose the best. So lets say we have two fighting squads and one ranged squad, then the player could assign the "sword icon" to the two fighting squads, and as there are two of the same icon it will also get a letter assigned to it, then the "bow icon" could be assigned to the ranged squad. This will make it very easy and intuitive for the player to know what squad do what. On top of this I have also made it so that the rally flags for specific creature types and squads will have the creatures icon on it or the squads icon, but this will be presented in the news tomorrow
Will it be possible to make a multi-specialty squad too? Like, say, a squad that features a combination of archers and melee fighters? IMO that would save considerable micromanagement when sending squads into battle or arranging them into patrols/guard postings so you'd have a balenced mix of skills being assigned a task with 1 click, rather then having to search for several squads to assign to the same task to get that balanced mix of skills. For example sending warriors to attack a large impanzee lair with archer support, if the squad already had archers included in it they could provide ranged cover fire for the warriors while the warriors could protect the archers and keep the enemies at a distance so the archers can continue to fight how their most effective, at long range where they can shoot arrows at the enemies rather then having to use their bows as clubs or draw a lesser weapon like a knife or dagger to fight hand to hand, which archers alone would be vulnerable to. Warriors alone would be vulnerable to enemy archers, especially if there's also melee fighters between your melee fighter and the enemy archers.

Mellow Tonin Wrote:I really liked the idea SU had where there was some kind of indicator of group strength too, so you know if they are ready for battle or should stay rested.

That's a good idea. +1. But what I meant was knowing how many creatures are assigned to a group and what it's full strength is, so if a squad is supposed to have 10 swordsman orcs assigned to it, but currently has only 6 in it (either due to casualties or recruitment delays) then it would display 6/10 on the squad display to indicate that it's not at full strength. Displaying the average HP of a squad is also needed to assess it's strength.
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The Golden One!
07-04-2014 12:55 AM
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