Feedback/Modification Equipment Mechanic - Auto-equip
#1
Hi. I have been playing some alpha 0,7 and I like what has been done. However I have a suggestion to add an auto-equip option that would let creatures equip the best equipment they can find. I think it would be handy because then you don't need to equip each individual creature. When you would like the creatures to upgrade their equipment you just press the auto-equip button again.
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#2
Hi and welcome to the forum Smile
This is something that has been widely discussed before the 0.7 release, but I didn't include it because it would have postpone the release even more. We will definitely come up with a solution to make this more easy, and auto equipping is one idea that has been thrown around.

Once the current bugs are solved I will get back to you on this one Smile
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#3
Welcome to the community Sokkur. Smile
We disscused various ideas of equipping creatures. If we would make it automatically we would need to know how to make system that would equip creatures automatically, at the same time equipment is not cheap, if you would make equipping automatically you and throughout the play you would research better methods of making other equipment that would be hard. Of course we could turn auto equipping, CPU helping system that would choose equipment the most suitable for our use on or off. How could CPU choose then the best equipment?

Important - As with creatures we're not going to make one better - stronger, more durable, with more powers than other, but each weapon, creature, hydraulics, etc. will have its own unique properties, abilities, etc. that would be perfect or the worst in certain conditions, be great against something, but very vulnerable to something other, costs will be balanced depending on certain conditions, thanks to this we are creating very wide strategy tactics and builds. So then as you see I see not impossible, but very difficult to implement auto-equip option, but we can think about very good solution with you and the rest of community. As fast we create solution as it's easier to implement it. Smile
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#4
Thanks for kind words.

(02-06-2014, 07:19 PM)Sebt Wrote: Important - As with creatures we're not going to make one better - stronger, more durable, with more powers than other, but each weapon, creature, hydraulics, etc. will have its own unique properties, abilities, etc. that would be perfect or the worst in certain conditions, be great against something, but very vulnerable to something other,

Does the same apply to armor, just wondering.
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#5
(03-06-2014, 12:30 AM)sokkur1 Wrote: Does the same apply to armor, just wondering.

Well this is something we thought should apply to everything without any exception - making a "ladder" where something stronger replaces previous version of the same type of weapon is a big waste of resources and time and it seems is too generic - instead making ladder of axes where each higher level is stronger - than lower leveled axe - we fell it might be better to make various kind of weapons that could be very usable in certain situation and not very effective in other.

... but this is of course only sort of conception. Game is on so early stage that we're really open for suggestions, many had been implemented, we discussed even the most basic game mechanics that could shape Dwelvers like people want, well this is something for long and thundering discussion. Sleepy

Anyway. Everything you would be able to make will depend on resources you could find and specific production chain you invent suitable for your needs... of course creatures have their own needs too, but if everything will play together very well, including fitting right equipment for creatures that will use them well you'll be the winner. Smile
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#6
I personally think that it is more simple to have each tier of equipment progressively more powerful. Combined with auto-equip you can develop bounds with your minions and have a favorite one. I am referring here to the game Overlord that I really liked, where your minions could loot equipment and your most decked out minions were your favorite ones and you didn't want to loose them.
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#7
I'm personally want to see equipping mechanism very simple and that not require too much micromanagement. At the same time having progressive items of each one type of equipment has some problems:

- it's easy to predict what equipment may enemy use, what resources would need, so you could easily know what resources has to be cutoff the enemy from its dwellings and higher levels would require higher number of the same resource to use - unless higher level eq.item cost differ to previous,

- higher levels of eq.items will only make this item stronger - unless higher level of eq.item will give additional or changed effect/value/properties/buff/ability/whatever we make for eq.items,

- when you have better levels of eq.items we need to do something with lower levels, we.won't have transmutation in game, so what we could do is to exchange them for shards (however we still don't know if these will be the official thing required to make creatures) unless there will be form of recycling them,

- this what players are accustomed to in most games - what we want in Dwelvers is to make each equipment unique - perfect for certain conditions, bad in other - people won't be able to have favourite eqs for everything, but for certain strategies that thanks to big diversity of eqs they could invent many and unpredictable... what's more - for each graphic designer, modder.etc. isn't it quite unsatisfying when he/she knew that something that took a lot of time to make will be used in game for couple of minutes?

- real matter - how to make one and half times better weapon using the same resources, but a little more? In real that would require better technology of making them - sharper blades, lighter.weight etc. - if this augmenting mechanism would be implemented we could upgrade some properties of the same weapon, but it's impossible to make it bigger, stronger just adding resources to remake it.

If it comes to auto-equip it still requires paying your attention to your resource supplies that could be easily depleted if you forgot to control how much you are able to dig out and how much you can spent. Game would need to know which weapon is the best choice for certain creature, but creatures in Dwelvers could have different specializations - the same Orc would be ranger, two-handed warrior or axeman - depends what path we choose for each creature. With the variety of different eqs - well the automation system would be something really to do - we could make it simple like you suggested with having progressively upgraded equipment, but then it would need to be simple and creatures too - that's nothing new and Dwelvers would end as not original in the vast of games on market made by big studios.
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#8
Can you tell me of game made by big studio where you control a dungeon of some sort and creatures get to equip weapons and armor? I only know of Impire and Overlord. Impire didn't focus as much on resources as this game do and Overlord was more of a RPG than dungeon-management game.
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#9
Why do you ask? Smile

Well not much and that's why Dwelvers will have equipment for creatures like in all mmo games - but I don't know any mmo that haven't progressively upgraded weapon, so having them not progressively upgradeable in Dwelvers will be something new, cost effective, diverse. I'm not looking at rts games but global game market.

I think maybe if we have that we could set professions for each creature we could set path of getting and developing skills as equipment creature with certain profession, but still you could make so much various army from one specie that with having so various items would be harder to.have auto-equipping mechanism, but that's not said it's impossible, well now is the time to think how to make game easy to.operate.without too much micromanagement, so I'm yes very much on auto-equip system, but how to fit it with diversification of creatures and equipment items? That's the question. Wink
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#10
So if I would compare the equipment and combat system you described I would compare it with Starcraft, where some units are good in one situation but not so good in a different situation. This is not a bad thing but how are you supposed to compete with the big boys if their games are vastly more polished and well known. I am only talking about the combat system here.
What if your most decked out minion would become the leader and gain even more bonuses but if killed would cause some morale penalties for your minions. He would become the main target for your enemies and if killed they can even get some of the leader equipment if they mange to steal it. The enemies may also have a leader if they choose that type of play style.
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#11
Combat system, creatures abilities, equipment and equipping mechanisms are something we need to discuss, think of, it's too early for us to say what will be for sure in Dwelvers, but can give a little image of what Dwelvers world will offer, so how would we compete with big boys? We want to discuss every aspect of the game with community, each idea can be good idea and even if someone like me say that see some obstacles and that could be a challenge to implement the idea I encourage this way to not find another solution, but new/modified/alternative way of how idea could work with Dwelvers world mechanisms, do a brainstorm conversations and... that we see obstacles doesn't mean new idea won't work - we don't know everything and we could not see what idea author see and what he/she proposes is even better then what we have now.
Shaping game like most would like to see will gather many satisfied gamers, because Dwelvers fits their needs, curiosity. So the aim is not to compete, but make game that fit gamers needs, that's all, if we accidentally be well known on the market well that would be fantastic. Cool

About minion as leader - if we balance costs of all equipment items so their rarity will depend only on resource rarities and eventually on how players will manage their storages players wouldn't be able to make one creature upgraded with super rare equipment and others only if player have the same amount of resources for next super creature.
We also won't have bosses in game - because.. well from where did they come from, who was their mother and why are they only one of all? Realistic, but fantasy world is our aim, many aspects are need to be discussed, nothing said it will be like I said too.

About morale system, nice idea. In real world when we're fighting with someone and we see suddenly he/she die our morale goes down, especially if our companion is very important to us.

About stealing equipment - we haven't thought about that yet, but seems to reflects laws of real world - you died, but what you wear will not vanish so quickly and could be stolen.

Currently we're at bug solving phase so Rasmus has tons of work to do, hope he will soon say something about that too. Smile
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#12
About Leaders
I don't really mean super rare equipment, the equipment could just bee little better than the other minions' equipment but you could choose if he is the leader of the minions or not. Making him a leader just gives him buff not new super rare equipment. If you wish to upgrade his equipment you need to find it or craft it as with all other equipment.
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#13
I see, so these bonuses are for raising morale for allies in range of leader's AoE and decreases after leader's death.
Hmm, what are requirements to make target creature a leader and how much leaders can you make? Are there any additional costs to make target creature a leader? Are there any more kind of bonuses leaders could give?

It's also hard to tell if one equipment is better than other if every have specific aim of use, but always you can think of equipment as favourite one. Smile
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#14
to the topic of auto equip
how about a system where you had equipment templates to whitch you could add the creatures you want to waer those things
and the creatures would get those items from your store rooms ( if you dont have enough the creature wount change gear )
for example you would add all your level 5+ creatures to template one and the ones below level 5 to template two
next you equip template one with bone armor, axe, shield and template two with lether armor and a ranged weapon
after that the creatures will go to the storage room and change their gear and mybe tell you how many and whitch items you lack
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#15
i like this idea
You could edit the templates in the crafting menu and safe them there.
Maybe you can assemble a template, save them and then when you give the order to produce the "template" the imps are prdouce all the needed equipment.
After this a message will displayed all procudes or something
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