Feedback/Modification Room Mechanic - Rooms. Do we need them?
#16
OK, then I see this situation:
We have many Rooms, but limited amount of idle Imps (luckily they're cheap and you could make them more, but it's always possible there won't be enough resources available to make more Imps), we have resources, but some Rooms could be more important for us to create items from, so we set priorities to which room Imps should go first - as higher has Room its priority % as it is higher in queue and its always serviced first before Rooms placed lower in queue. That's what I previously understand, but maybe I should be more clear in showing that when proposing my idea regarding to Excess, because I see issues with prioritizing by % or numbers.

The issue:
Imagine that you have 20 Rooms, 3 of them uses iron in production and/or you would need iron for placing some items/decorations.
If you set too lower priority for Rooms that requires iron there's chance that their production will not be doing continuously or even none at all if you have not enough Imps, possible that none of Imps would built item/decoration (unless Imps had always priority lvl of making items/decorations set higher).

The only issue could be that you have enough Imps, but Rooms placed higher in queue could need materials more frequent then placed lower - for example, we have one idle Imp. One Room to keep efficiency enough good for us would require to supply it with materials by 12 seconds, Rooms lower in hierarchy could require 16 seconds - it's possible that after 12 seconds game will send Imp to supply higher in queue Room, so if Imp won't deliver quickly enough needed resource to Room that needs 12s - Room that requires more time would need to wait much more longer for him. That's solvable only by building Rooms closer to Imps or just by making more Imps.

So what I proposed is the way to prioritize delivering resources to first Room that need to be supplied with resources at the moment. That's how queue is automatically being made for whole group of Idle Imps. If you don't want some Rooms to produce anything or if you want to keep production going in all Rooms, but in certain more you could instead of using resources for other buildings just put needless to sleep like in Anno games, so resources wouldn't be used by other Rooms, but Rooms that you want to produce more from the same type of resource. If you have enough Imps and enough resources I don't see need to prioritize Rooms manually too, because everything will produce goods with 100% efficiency - if player could set priorities you could break whole production chain in dungeon.

If you want to keep the production chain of specific Rooms that one is needed for other and that other for another you could just set one Imp that has servicing whole that chain and stays there and wait for needed resources from suppliers.

If I missed something post it here. Wink
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#17
Sebt, I see your point about breaking the chain of production. I don't see it a flaw though, but as a feature Tongue

I want to give the player the power to success or fail because of his decisions. I want to give them the possibility of quickly halting every other production except weapons if they believe that's what it would take to fend off the invading enemy. Off course the dark mother will complain in the production messages that you aren't producing X or lack imps to fill all the jobs, but they'll deal with it later, once all the impanzees are vanquished and the dark mother isn't in danger anymore.

Or perhaps, I want them to bump up the production of food so they have a surplus in the future, which will allow them to reassign the cooks temporary so they can claim a huge piece of land faster, without fear of running out of food in the meantime.

But perhaps a simpler way of doing it is leaving the structures/rooms out of it? Giving priority only to free-workers tasks, and influencing production speeds only by prioritizing one room's items delivery?
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#18
(21-06-2014, 05:44 PM)Excess Wrote: Sebt, I see your point about breaking the chain of production. I don't see it a flaw though, but as a feature Tongue

I want to give the player the power to success or fail because of his decisions. I want to give them the possibility of quickly halting every other production except weapons if they believe that's what it would take to fend off the invading enemy. Off course the dark mother will complain in the production messages that you aren't producing X or lack imps to fill all the jobs, but they'll deal with it later, once all the impanzees are vanquished and the dark mother isn't in danger anymore.
Learning by doing mistakes is the most efficient way of learning, at the same time I don't know if player could be able to control everything while fighting, building traps or doing other things, well it's all about if this would or won't be annoying, but...

(21-06-2014, 05:44 PM)Excess Wrote: Or perhaps, I want them to bump up the production of food so they have a surplus in the future, which will allow them to reassign the cooks temporary so they can claim a huge piece of land faster, without fear of running out of food in the meantime.

...if you want to make surplus you could put to sleep buildings that engage Imps you would need to make surpluses of food and that way don't afraid of famine. Player this way will still have control and be able to adjust production for its needs itself. Wink

(21-06-2014, 05:44 PM)Excess Wrote: But perhaps a simpler way of doing it is leaving the structures/rooms out of it? Giving priority only to free-workers tasks, and influencing production speeds only by prioritizing one room's items delivery?

Hmm, could you elaborate this a bit?
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#19
(21-06-2014, 06:31 PM)Sebt Wrote:
(21-06-2014, 05:44 PM)Excess Wrote: But perhaps a simpler way of doing it is leaving the structures/rooms out of it? Giving priority only to free-workers tasks, and influencing production speeds only by prioritizing one room's items delivery?

Hmm, could you elaborate this a bit?
Well, I've been thinking, and it doesn't matter if you use rooms (like we do today) or professions (like I suggested) the biggest chokehold in production is the lack of ingredients/storage. So giving %100 priority to the cookery room is useless if he doesn't get the resources he needs.

So either we give the responsibility of fetching raw material and dispatching the finished product to the imp responsible of the room (which I wouldn't mind) or we think of a way to prioritize this deliveries by the free-workers.

That's what I meant, having the possibility to give more importance to the delivery to a specific room over others will result in more of that item being produced. Perhaps we could change this priority by right-clicking the blue flag?
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#20
Hmm, I haven't read everything to be honest, so please forgive me if I miss some important points here.

Remove rooms:
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- If we would make it so that buildings next to eachother would get auto-linked it would still get a lot more messy than with rooms. As all buildings in a dungeon will be close to eachother there is no possible way for the computer to calculate where the borders are, and if we let the player decide the linking between the buildings it would be a lot more work than now.
- Another thing I read was to remove the rooms and the linking all together and just have the imps decide what task to do next depending on its priority. This is the reason I implemented the room linking, having all the imps being able to do all the jobs was very demanding on the cpu, but the main reason was that there were no order in the dungeon, imps could run from one side of the dungeon to the other side just to fetch some water when it was far more productive to have him stand at the farm and only do the farm work for example.

Priorities are still an issue:
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- I could make another menu where the player can switch between the different tasks and put one on top of the other to increase its priority along with some other options, this would also help us balance the game a lot better.

Prioritise production of certain items / Lack of resources:
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As I see it, if the player has enough resources and are able to keep the storage rooms from clogging up everything should run smoothly.

- The issue here is that the farm (for example) is way to slow on producing antroots comparing to the brewingvat and the mill using it. When a antroot is harvested it will either go to the mill or the brewery, and when the next antroot is produced the brewing vat or the mill are already ready for the next one. If I would make it so that the brewing vat and the mill needs 2 minute each to brew the beer or grind the antroot, then when the brewing vat takes the first antroot it will not be able to take the other for at least two minutes, thereby forcing the mill to take the next one. This way it will be evenly distributed. And the number of mills or brewing vats will have a much bigger effect on the number of items to be produced out of one type. I will have to redesign the mill to make this work, it is important that the mill grinds the antroot during a longer amount of time without having a imp working on it.

- The clogging up of the storage rooms are being worked on, maybe we could make it so that the "free workers" will lend a hand automatically if they have nothing else to do and a storage room is clogged up.

- Giving one building a higher priority than the other should not be that hard to do. We could just make it so that one building only accepts antroots once a building with higher priority has gotten two antroots.
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#21
I'm also looking to have things like construction also have adjustable priority. As I've said before, I had a game where my DM got killed off because I stumbled across an impanzee lair too early in the game while looking for gold (in 0.6x versions) and when I saw my orcs were starting to get overwhelmed, I tried to have my imps build walls to seal that part of the dungeon off, but couldn't get them to do it in time, they kept running off to every other task but building those walls. By the time they were finally ready to start building the walls, it was too late, the impanzees were into the main dungeon and DM area and those walls were moot. Had I been able to set the priority of building wall, doors, etc to a high enough level that the imps would do that right away, that never would have happened, there was probably about a 3-5 minute lag between when I saw my orcs were in trouble and ordered those walls built and when the impanzees got passed where the imps were supposed to build those walls. If I remember correctly, the tasks the imps were doing at the time insread of building those walls were things like working the farms, carrying items around and stuff like that.
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