New Feature! Goods Mechanic - New trading system and further its development
#16
It looks really interesting.

As a future addon, I would love to see the necessity to clear a safe path in the surface world of a particular stair before you can trade. Either that or risk being robbed ourselves by the knights, and loosing the goods, even maybe loose the imp.

Each node would add a %10 chance of being robbed, so getting safely to the furthest nodes would be really dangerous as you'd have to get past several of them, but they'd yield the best deals and items too!

Unless you clear the threats, of course.
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#17
Excellent idea, that also ads another barrier to spamming trade routes. Another hazard could be getting attacked by neutral-hostile creatures that I suggested a few months ago, Bandits, who would basically attack anyone that has anything of value and that is weaker then them. Bandits would rob imps, trade posts, your market and store rooms if they're not well enough guarded, knights, impanzee lairs, even the cyclotaurs if a band of bandits thinks they're powerful or sneaky enough to get away with it. Bandits could also act as mercenaries or trade posts, if your strong enough not to get immediately attacked and robbed by them. A shady knight who considers chivalry optional may also hire bandits to attack you as well, of course. Each band of bandits would operate from a room called a camp. So basically your imps doing trade duty would be at risk of being attacked by a knight, a hostile creature such as a cyclotaur or impanzee, or some bandits.

IMO the trading room should be called the Market.

Also, if the Caravans or wandering merchants features ever get added, building a Market/Trading Room could create a chance of a merchant or caravan coming directly to your dungeon to trade. If this happens a message and the DM could announce that a caravan/merchant is in your Market looking for a deal. Another possible option if a caravan did arrive at your market and you really liked the deal you got, you could offer the caravan the opportunity to make this a permanent trade route, which would mean the caravan would visit at regular intervals to make the same trade as before. Price escalation rules mentioned by Rasmus in the other thread for repeated trades would apply, so it would also be necessary to be able to cancel a trade route that becomes unprofitable, with also a chance that the caravan may cancel the route themselves. There could also be markets and trade posts spawned in both the dungeon and on the surface as well, all of which would have the possibility of attracting caravans to them, which your minions could approach to either trade with them or rob them.
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#18
(25-06-2014, 12:07 PM)Aische1984 Wrote: in order to incorporate future items you could have them change their offer every 10 to 60 minutes either random or rotate through a number of possible trades or maybe just a have one or two posts with changing offers

I am not so sure about this idea because I want the player to choose the trading route on the map depending on the items he want to trade with. I could add some flexibility in it like if the player spam wood on a trading post to get gold, then after a while this trading post will have no more interest in wood and change the item he wants for gold.

If this is really smart designed (which is very hard), then a action like that could have ripples through the neighbour trading posts as well because we can almost assume that others are doing trades as well.

(25-06-2014, 01:26 PM)Excess Wrote: It looks really interesting.

As a future addon, I would love to see the necessity to clear a safe path in the surface world of a particular stair before you can trade. Either that or risk being robbed ourselves by the knights, and loosing the goods, even maybe loose the imp.

Each node would add a %10 chance of being robbed, so getting safely to the furthest nodes would be really dangerous as you'd have to get past several of them, but they'd yield the best deals and items too!

Unless you clear the threats, of course.

This could be very possible, the idea is that when the player sends an imp to a trading post he will have a wagon filled with all the items he want to trade with. I am thinking that the more workers and wagons the player has in the trading room the more trades with different trading posts he can do simultaneously. Now lets say that the player collect a huge amount of wood in one wagon and send the imp of and he gets attacked. Then it would almost be a smarter move to send smaller amount of wood at a time so that he don't put all his eggs in one basket.

(26-06-2014, 03:49 AM)Seriously Unserious Wrote: Excellent idea, that also ads another barrier to spamming trade routes. Another hazard could be getting attacked by neutral-hostile creatures that I suggested a few months ago, Bandits, who would basically attack anyone that has anything of value and that is weaker then them. Bandits would rob imps, trade posts, your market and store rooms if they're not well enough guarded, knights, impanzee lairs, even the cyclotaurs if a band of bandits thinks they're powerful or sneaky enough to get away with it. Bandits could also act as mercenaries or trade posts, if your strong enough not to get immediately attacked and robbed by them. A shady knight who considers chivalry optional may also hire bandits to attack you as well, of course. Each band of bandits would operate from a room called a camp. So basically your imps doing trade duty would be at risk of being attacked by a knight, a hostile creature such as a cyclotaur or impanzee, or some bandits.

IMO the trading room should be called the Market.

Also, if the Caravans or wandering merchants features ever get added, building a Market/Trading Room could create a chance of a merchant or caravan coming directly to your dungeon to trade. If this happens a message and the DM could announce that a caravan/merchant is in your Market looking for a deal. Another possible option if a caravan did arrive at your market and you really liked the deal you got, you could offer the caravan the opportunity to make this a permanent trade route, which would mean the caravan would visit at regular intervals to make the same trade as before. Price escalation rules mentioned by Rasmus in the other thread for repeated trades would apply, so it would also be necessary to be able to cancel a trade route that becomes unprofitable, with also a chance that the caravan may cancel the route themselves. There could also be markets and trade posts spawned in both the dungeon and on the surface as well, all of which would have the possibility of attracting caravans to them, which your minions could approach to either trade with them or rob them.

I like the caravan idea, we could easily implement random events where the trading posts comes to you instead. Having a merchant as a neutral creature walk down through the portal and into your trading room and stay there for 10 minutes or so, and with this giving the player an extra option to do trades with him directly.
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#19
My thinking is that this also makes the world more real as well, as it feels more like there are things going on outside of the map and that's my idea of where these random merchants/caravans would come from, somewhere off-map, and once done trading, would go to the edge of the map (perhaps along a road or something) and leave to somewhere off-map. That gives the impression that there's a wider world then just what's going on on this one small map.
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#20
There have been some minor adjustments to this system, the player will still get a new trading route for each portal he claims, but instead of just being able to select the trading routes from the production menu the player now select and link trading routes directly to the portal he or she claims. So when the imps run away with the cart to make the trade he has to go to the right portal and not just any portal.

It is explained in more detail in this video:



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#21
I watched the video and I have some suggestions:
- when Imp is under way on trade route - on the map you could see that Imp is moving in real time from one point to another (like in Impire when your troops move to "Dungeon(s)" and back),
- as further is our target place from our Dungeon as it takes longer to get into that place and come back.
- what about implementing the safety levelsystem system for trading routes? Some could be absolutely safe to pass, but some not and you would need to send some troops to place where possibility of being robbed is higher? You could easily make a groups for trading if you implement idea of making Squads, so you could choose to send only Imps or specified group. During your way to the target you get report - if there were enemies or not, how strong and if your creatures were harm in battle or how many died, etc.This mechanism also make game more challenging. We could make that during the trip you can be attacked more then once or find something during the trip (something like... see below).
- sometimes your troops could find additional rare resource(s), unknown earlier plans to make new weapon, new spell with limited use or maybe a new creature could join your army, special artifact, etc.
- trading posts (which I called places where you could trade with) could have limited demand for some resources or even change what they need or what could exchange for with a time.
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#22
(10-07-2014, 04:07 PM)Sebt Wrote: - when Imp is under way on trade route - on the map you could see that Imp is moving in real time from one point to another (like in Impire when your troops move to "Dungeon(s)" and back),
- as further is our target place from our Dungeon as it takes longer to get into that place and come back.

The idea is that there should be some delay depending on how far away the trading route is on the map. This is not implemented yet, right now it always takes ~10 seconds for the imp to return after it has entered the portal. Having the imps move on the map is a really good idea Smile

(10-07-2014, 04:07 PM)Sebt Wrote: - what about implementing the safety levelsystem system for trading routes? Some could be absolutely safe to pass, but some not and you would need to send some troops to place where possibility of being robbed is higher? You could easily make a groups for trading if you implement idea of making Squads, so you could choose to send only Imps or specified group. During your way to the target you get report - if there were enemies or not, how strong and if your creatures were harm in battle or how many died, etc.This mechanism also make game more challenging. We could make that during the trip you can be attacked more then once or find something during the trip (something like... see below).

I really would like to avoid just having a message come up telling the player that he got robbed. One way to solve this is that for each time a imp returns from the portal there is always a chance he will have some enemies following him. So for the player to secure the trading route he should make it so that he has creatures guarding the portals when the trades are being executed.

(10-07-2014, 04:07 PM)Sebt Wrote: - sometimes your troops could find additional rare resource(s), unknown earlier plans to make new weapon, new spell with limited use or maybe a new creature could join your army, special artifact, etc.

I like that!

(10-07-2014, 04:07 PM)Sebt Wrote: - trading posts (which I called places where you could trade with) could have limited demand for some resources or even change what they need or what could exchange for with a time.

This is being worked on. It is all a matter or demand and supply. If the player only buys wood from one trading post this trading post should be running out of wood and thereby increasing the price for it.
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#23
Nice. Big Grin
And yes, I thought if will be better to have one report that you get after reaching destination (because if were rob during the way and have had some lost, but anyway win your troops will back a little smaller).
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#24
I like that idea, +1 Sebt. I can also see an event where your imp and his guards could be wiped out or have their cart of goods stolen by a successful bandit raid on your trading cart, which could also be reported with a message, if wiped out, you could get the message that your caravan is missing at the time when it was due back, if robbed you could see any survivors show up empty handed and get a message that they were robbed, how many casualties and what goods were lost.

If you do get a caravan missing message you could have an option to mount an expedition to find it, or what happened to it. If there are bandits operating they could possibly raid the bandits. A successful raid reduces risk of further raids on that route for a while and you get whatever goods the bandits had, or bribe the bandits to leave your caravans alone and specifically target competing caravans (temporarily get reduced risk of being raided and better prices).

The caravan missing message could also be from the caravan simply being late, maybe it got delayed by bad weather on the surface, or a road got buried in a landslide and the imp+orcs had to dig their way through, in which case the expedition would find the caravan still on the road.

If sending out such an expedition, you could get a message asking for instructions if they find a bandit camp. With the options being to either raid it, trade with it, or bribe it. The message could also give you the strength of the expedition and the estimated strength of the bandit camp (the accuracy of the bandit's strength could be affected by the level (and if included, intelligence) of the highest level warrior present. If selecting bribe or trade then an imp would be dispatched from your trading room just like if it was responding to a normal trade route with the goods selected for the trade/bribe.

Of course, there could also be a random chance of a natural disaster or war delaying or destroying a caravan, which the expedition would report on when it returns. If the caravan was just delayed, then it would, of course, eventually return on its own, just later then expected, with a message notifying you that the missing caravan has turned up, possibly throwing in what delayed them, which could have a lasting effect on that route, at least for a time, maybe making it slower, or more dangerous or something.
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#25
I know that the fixed trade options that we have right now is a placeholder for something bigger, and more random.

Reading this though...

(10-07-2014, 02:26 PM)Rasmus Wrote: So when the imps run away with the cart to make the trade he has to go to the right portal and not just any portal.

...made me wonder if you could mirror in a general way, the position of the available trades to the place where the portals are, roughly.

So you find a portal, the imp hears about a couple of new locations while on the surface and they are shown on your map. If they are displayed in the map as being somewhat to the east, you now know that you have to explore in your dungeon in that general direction to find the portal you what to conquer.
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#26
(15-07-2014, 01:31 AM)Excess Wrote: ...made me wonder if you could mirror in a general way, the position of the available trades to the place where the portals are, roughly.

So you find a portal, the imp hears about a couple of new locations while on the surface and they are shown on your map. If they are displayed in the map as being somewhat to the east, you now know that you have to explore in your dungeon in that general direction to find the portal you what to conquer.

It isn't impossible, but I want to hold back on this idea a little bit because when the surface world gets fully functional the imps should continue running up there and find the trading spot. This may interfere with the current system but it will definitely enhance the trading experience.
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#27
the new system seems to work great
i got 7 to 10 portals an they all seem to work
but i think it would be usefull if the tradingroom was linked to all storage rooms
as it is now you have to change the link depending on what goods you want to trade or it takes forever to get the stuff delivered from your storage to the trading room

on another note it would be nice if you could build up reputation with the trading posts to get additional offers maybe the item they want stays the same but you can get a different item from them in the second offer
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#28
(16-07-2014, 05:34 PM)Aische1984 Wrote: the new system seems to work great
i got 7 to 10 portals an they all seem to work
but i think it would be usefull if the tradingroom was linked to all storage rooms
as it is now you have to change the link depending on what goods you want to trade or it takes forever to get the stuff delivered from your storage to the trading room

I understand the issue.. Maybe we can let the player link the trading rooms to specific portals?

(16-07-2014, 05:34 PM)Aische1984 Wrote: on another note it would be nice if you could build up reputation with the trading posts to get additional offers maybe the item they want stays the same but you can get a different item from them in the second offer

We will implement a system like that.
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#29
How about treat the trading room more like a storage room when it comes to linking. 1 trading room can be linked with many storage rooms.
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#30
(17-07-2014, 03:16 PM)Rasmus Wrote: I understand the issue.. Maybe we can let the player link the trading rooms to specific portals?
i think that would work but it would severly reduce flexebility
caus you would have to build a trading room for every portal
or change the link to another portal every time you want to do another trade

EDIT:
i think that would complicate things on the software end too since the system would have to do different trades paralel not sequential as i think it works now
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