Brainstorm - Choose which creatures should do what in Dwelvers?

[Sebt]

Let's talk about job diversification and job assignment and how would it look in Dwelvers in the future and in the pool choose our favourite version, decide if most of the work should do Imps or maybe we shouldn't have specified group of workers (Main workers group in Dwelvers are Imps - in other games mailny Peasants, etc.), but every creature is a worker and you can see equality between all of them. I'll give example how job assignment was done in DK and compare to this actual in Dwelvers and maybe we could make a new interesting system of job assignments in Dwelvers.

Workers and jobs assignment on Dungeon Keeper example
Those who played Dungeon Keeper knows that production chain was simple: Resource (- Product) - Use. For resource gathering or preparing land for structures like traps and rooms you use Imps alone. They were the only ones who provide resources to dungeons, claim lands and fortify walls, the rest whole work was doing by creatures that had needs. Imps don't have needs and they're the only creatures you could create from spell, they could work without need to sleep, eat, fart, being paid, etc,.

Workers and jobs assignment in Dwelvers
How does it look like in Dwelvers at the moment? Imps are doing everything, sometimes Orcs helps in digging, now also Piggeh helps in the kitchen (but that is only made for tests), but every creature, including our green slaves need sleep, food, etc, so when we need workers all the time we can't use them all, because they also have needs like you, oh, Evil One and will refuse to work with empty belly for example... Now we're at the stage of giving more jobs to creatures, but we'll see how much of work will they take from Imps (if any, because probably they'll still make everything, but certain creatures will craft certain things faster, better so it'll be player's choice of whom hire to which work).


Now... let's explain my question
What will happen if some creatures besides Impa could also dig, fortify, make bread or harvest crop etc... do we really need something like one workers group like Imps if we have also other creatures who could do the same jobs as Imps? Imps are now belonging to creature category, have needs and can be created in the same way as other creatures right? There is equality saved.
Maybe Imps should do all the dirty work like machines and we should make that other creatures are ONLY to fight, to use them as a weapon and tool of realizing our sick, evil intensions, plans, desires? What do you think? Maybe we shall turn back to DK assigning job mechanism? Maybe not and there is another way of diversify jobs in Dwelvers that could optimally fit game mechanisms.

I left these questions for you and I encourage to discussion, chose one of the pool option and let us know: how should we allocate jobs?
Maybe Imps could have their own specie with different types of Imps that each could be great in doing this, other that? Who knows.

[Rasmus]

Good topic Sebt! I will keep my vote out of this one, but I will definitely come with some input later on depending on the results

[Mello Tonin]

Great Post Sebt! (+2)

I think as we get more rooms and more jobs to fill, Imps are going to start getting spread way too thin. Also, I'm not really keen on filling my dungeon with Imps. Right now for a dungeon to expand and stay productive in a somewhat quick fashion, I need at least 40 Imps to get things done. I could see some of the jobs they currently do being handed off to other characters like Smithing. This is something I would think of a more stout creature like an Orc doing.

On the same line of thought, I don't really wanna have Imps that have no needs at all like in DK where Imps just chain-smoked and stayed happy no matter how many times you slapped them around.

[Excess]

Equality of opportunities for everyone!

I envision an underworld where every creature is free to chase his dream.

Want to work metal? You can do it!
Want to brew beer? Go for it!
Want to punch pigs and sleep all day? HELL YEAH!

Every imp, orc, cyclotaur and sneaky little rogue will have a random job preference when born. Whenever you assign workers to a job, the creatures which would like to work at that job will have a better chance of being picked.
The catch is that some creatures are better at certain jobs. Orcs are excellent metalworkers and diggers, but get drunk and pass out as bartenders or brewers. Imps are awesome farmers and cooks, but lousy metalworkers and fighters. Cyclotaurs are the fastest merchants of all the queendom, but ruin half the antroots they harvest with their hoofs.

This will give a fun and unexpected variable that will make each dungeon unique to play and watch.

Of course, if you are a control freak and want to run a perfect dungeon, you can always "fire" your current drunk orc bartender and hire a new random creature until you find the right creature for the right job.

Wouldn't it be fun having a Cyclotaur making bread, and Orc tending tables and "loosing" a couple of beer on the way, or and imp trying to make a sword only to end up with a deformed spoon that he has to melt and try again?

[Sebt]

Ha ha, wow, opinions are so divided, keep voting aNFL explaining your choice, I've my own type too, but won't tell you now.

[TopperHarley]

I have changed my vote to

• Creatures and Imps can do the same jobs - not all of course, but some could do this, some that (so we don't have division for Imps and Creatures, all are the one workgroup).
  

I think the most jobs can doing by the Imps.
Creatures can doing all primary jobs like digging, building, delivering, farming etc.

The imps can douing every job but the workflow are low when the imp smelt iron or make a armor
It would greate, specified Jobs like working in the smelter or prison or whatever can doing only creatures which are suitable for this job.
So if you have a creature, which are suitable for this job, the worker will automatically or manuell replaced.
Some creatures are good for fight, others are better for working and have a better production output.

If a Creature long does the same work, the experience for this work will increases and the creature will be better. Imps are excluded

Actually, pretty much the same as or similar to Excess idea

[Seriously Unserious]

I voted for having the imps to most of the jobs, but I do like the idea of having other creatures being able to do production jobs as well. IMO it would make much more sense to have each creature type have a set of jobs they're well-suited for, a set of jobs they do poorly, and the rest they are normal at. For example, the tiny, petit imps shouldn't be any good at heavy labor like smelting, blacksmithing and so on, but being fast, agile and mild-mannered would be perfectly suited for exploring, carrying messages, trading and acting as envoys when you aren't ready to attack someone just yet and want to keep them off your back while you take care of someone else. Imps could also be very well suited to tailoring with their nimble little hands. Likewise, the rougues could also be good at tailoring, spying and stealing, among other things, while the powerful Cyclotaurs, Orcs and Piggehs would make excellent smelters and blacksmiths.

I also like Excess' idea of each creature having a favorite job as well, so each creature type would have jobs they are strong at, weak at, and normal at, and each individual creature would have a preferred job, which should be weighted to be mostly from their creature based strengths, and be least likely to be from their weaknesses.

+2 to Sebt for posting this great topic! +1 to Excess for his good ideas, and also +1 to TH, Looks like great minds think alike as the saying goes...

[Excess]

[...] and each individual creature would have a preferred job, which should be weighted to be mostly from their creature based strengths, and be least likely to be from their weaknesses.

That could be defined by the difficulty you chose.

• Easy: Almost %75 of creatures get a job suited for them.
  
• Medium: Roughly %50 of creatures get a job suited for them.
  
• Hard: Barely %25 of creatures get a job suited for them.

I would always play on hard just to enjoy the absurdity of a cyclotaur in charge of a bar bumping into tables and knocking down beers, or an imp trying to smith a sword and ending up making a shovel instead.

[Sebt]

Hmm, interesting point of views, anyone else would like to join discussion?

[RestOne]

I like the idea of SU!
You don't have to place expensive creatures on a special task, but they would do it much faster/more efficent. So to improve your production you need to encounter new enemies.
But I'm not sure, if every single creature should have a certain strength. Would possibly end in a lot of micromanagement. And even if it is hilarious to see a Cyclotaur waitress, it would be too unreal, to take it serious

[Sebt]

OK. So, because no one else is replying here ill give my statement about job diversification.

Firstly - I would like to have Imps as one of the creature, maybe even part of Goblin - like specie mixed with Fairy (that's actually a mythical Imp appearance), so I would like to give Imp more interesting background.

Secondly - It makes sense for me if different creatures could work in various environments with differentusability in certain room. I really don't like system where 1 room = 1 creature - what if you want to have workshop, but you don't want creature that as one and only could work in workshops?
I also don't like to have worker class like Imps are representing now (but I know it's a placeholder to shoe as soon as possible new game mechanics) that do most of jobs, a multitasking ultimate workers, I would like to have different types of Imps too.

I want player to have unlimited ways of choice, so every creature should be able to do this or that with different production efficiency. Let's give to player ability to pick his favourite mix of creatures he/she would like to play with.

The most important here will be a balance between usability in rooms, battle and other things like upkeep or behavior. So I choose gate number 3.

[Porterhouse]

I like Excess' idea. Gnomoria has a base skill on each creature for every job that is random so they are better at some than others, but able in all of them. I think the job assignment idea would depend on how the creatures themselves are treated. Are you going to have individuals? Will each orc be unique? Will every piggeh have their own name and story? Are you creating creatures or are you recruiting them?

I'm all for the different creatures having a part in running the dungeon, but I think how the skill levels are going to be handled will ultimately determine if you'll have a working class vs a military class. Does it make sense for a level 9 orc to do a better job than a level 4 orc, even though those 9 levels came from fighting instead of working?

If it does end up being that each room will have it's own summoned creature to work at it, what about assigning imps to help in the room to increase the production speed? Watching an orc slap an imp around while they're trying to make armour would be funny!

[UfoL]

Watching an orc slap an imp around while they're trying to make armour would be funny!

Hah! Great one! Now that would be perfect job for orcs! Yell and slap imps to work faster. The more drunk orc, the better the "boost" he slaps in for imps
Honestly, some friendly/antagonist behaviours would bring some surprises. I remember when in DK1 one of my warlocks just hate imps and shoot fireballs whenever he met one at the library. That brings me idea that some creatures could intentionally or not just interrupt work of other creatures (if dungeon design let it to happen often) - Like orcs stealing beer right from the brewing vat, or fishman pushing onthers into water.

But back to topic.
I think that every creature should be able to do every job, but they have some race prefferences. We could order some creature to do certain task, but if thats is something this creature doesn't like he'll give up or get angry and work slowly. Similar to DK1 system. There are some favourite and anti-favourite tasks the monster would do. Orc for example would love to kick ass and drink, neutral to smithing, and hate farming/cooking.
I think imps are only good for transport, claiming and some slow mining, while beind mentally too simple for more complex tasks. Maybe they could be helped by overgrown rats carrying bags for materials for them to speed up things by bulk transport. Building, smithing and workshop thing would be left for some engineer minded creature - gnome, troll, dwarf or some other tinkerer.
I think that every creature should do everything, but they would do their unlikes only when there is urgent need, or there is nobody else to do it. We just need some more creatures to distribute prefferences to - some may like same jobs while hate different, and some races may even hate any job at all. Or there could be some braindead giant roach who enjoy everything, but fails most of the time (sometimes pissing off other creature working nearby).

[Rasmus]

I would also like to have every creature do every job, but the problem is the amount of animations that must be done then, it will rise exponentially with every new creature and every new job, and that would take a lot of time to get working

Perhaps we could have the imps being able to do everything, then another creature being extra good at it.

[UfoL]

If ya put it that way... i can live without that.

Anyway i prefer DK like attitude - imps for most basic thing only. I think we can let imps work, as long as there is no new creature to fit the job in the future.