Brainstorm Creature Mechanic - Creature production - Ideas needed!
#91
Hmm, the important thing is that the player can hear on its name that one thing is better than the other.

Good, Neutral, Bad, Evil.
Standard, Special, Exclusive, Supreme.
Raw, Cooked, Gourmet, Heavenly.
Poor, Standard, Fine, Supreme. (I think I will go with this one as it is more standard and easier to remember.)

Then end it with:
...creature crafting parts?

Hmm maybe something shorter..

I will delay the newsletter until Saturday afternoon, I have a lot off new things to show off that is almost complete, and I don't want to show it halfway done.
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#92
So what do you think about Shards presented in news there: http://forum.dwelvers.com/showthread.php?tid=791 ?
Spec: Win 10, ATI 7800 HD, res: 1280x1024x75. I support The Venus Project & Resource-Based Economy
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#93
I think this is a great way to produce creatures and also keep the store rooms from filling up on excess junk. Looks like we still need a name for the top tier shard. What about Shard of Perdition? Since there's not too many things you can get past death, Perdition, being the final state of evil which is irreversible seems to fit. Also, just being nit-picky, I think the colors would be better ordered Blue, Green, Yellow, then Red but that's just my opinion.
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#94
(20-04-2014, 12:19 PM)Sebt Wrote: So what do you think about Shards presented in news there: http://forum.dwelvers.com/showthread.php?tid=791 ?

I love the idea. IMO it's better then anything else that was being bandied about.Cool
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#95
(20-04-2014, 03:45 PM)Mello Tonin Wrote: I think this is a great way to produce creatures and also keep the store rooms from filling up on excess junk. Looks like we still need a name for the top tier shard. What about Shard of Perdition? Since there's not too many things you can get past death, Perdition, being the final state of evil which is irreversible seems to fit. Also, just being nit-picky, I think the colors would be better ordered Blue, Green, Yellow, then Red but that's just my opinion.

The top tier shard could have death and we could put something between the other once or even put another name in the beginning and move the whole name ladder upwards. Perdition could go before death, but then again it sounds more harsh to be doomed forever than just die Tongue

It don't think there are a definite scheme we could use to define what color is better than the other, if there are, then I stand corrected and we can change it Smile

Hmm, when I think about it, aren't you pointing towards a reversed r, g, b color scheme? I think yellow can replace green also.

(20-04-2014, 10:30 PM)Seriously Unserious Wrote:
(20-04-2014, 12:19 PM)Sebt Wrote: So what do you think about Shards presented in news there: http://forum.dwelvers.com/showthread.php?tid=791 ?

I love the idea. IMO it's better then anything else that was being bandied about.Cool

Haha, well, I tend to go towards simplicity in the end, if we want to complicate stuff we should do it waay after leaving the alpha versions Wink
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#96
A little similar shard like mechanism I experienced playing Dungeon Hunter 4 on Android, it looked like this below, however in this way it is a hierarchic mechanism (as better stones as better equipment, one next Stone cost 3 previous when transmutting them):
[Image: Dungeon-Hunter-4-tier-100-leg-armor.jpg]

Maybe we could make more advanced weapons more valuable, convertable to higher leveled stones/shards, however to avoid creature cost dependence on as higher leveled stones, their amount - as better creature you could get. If we're not planning to make creatures that later player will be able to makw their stronger equivalents that will replace weaker we need to combine how we could use shards then to make creatures to balance all creatures cost. I think what shards you need could depend on resource rarity and specialized in different kind of use of these creatures, maybe special abilities, but not base stats, otherwise we finished with old, genetic hierarchy - like in DK 1 from Flies, Bugs, Demon Spawns to Dragons, Bile Demons, Horned Reapers.... but then I think we would have to exclude hierarchic character of stones and equipment, so no wooden stick, then metal, ending with big crook of insane anihilation, this would be the biggest waste of resources ever.
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#97
The way i understand Mello referred to the order of the colors as from "cool" to "warm"?

I must say that on a second (more like tenth Big Grin) look, i think the colors are too cute. maybe closer colors could fit more..

[Image: Shards.png]
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#98
I was just thinking in order from good to evil, I would see red as being a color more closely associated to evil than green. When I think of green I'm reminded of living things. I did go kind of reverse RGB there though, but I like what BurningPet said about going from cool to warm. I guess the thing that's throwing me off is those look more like cut gems than what I would think of as shards. Sorry to be nit-picky again, but when I'm thinking of a shard, I imagine a rough chip of a gem or whatever like this:

[Image: GYCC.png]
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#99
You do have a point there.. We did try having shards in that exact style, but as they are so small the scaling got really bad and it was hard to see what was what. Therefore we went with a more cleaner look on the shards so that it is possible to see what kind of shard it is even if it got scaled really small.

Maybe we can find some middle ground here.
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You could probably just make what you have look like they have some rough edges to get that effect. I like the Rune-like symbol in BurningPet's image there. It would be cool if they all had something similar.

On a side note, I dug around a bit to find other examples of shards and found this image.

[Image: GYN1.png]

It could be that just making the shape less uniform could make them look more shard-like?
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I think the best idea would be somewhat around '4'.

First of all, basicly I can rather safely build a big base and get all settled in without encountering any monsters, (Few impanzees maybe). Which means, once I find a gold deposit near my base, I can build and train like 7 Orcs and still havent encountered anything serious.

(On a side note: I can capture a Knight's staircase, then rebuild the wall, and Knights keep coming in, in the end I have sooo many Knights walking around there in a small area, thats bad.. this way you can make Knight grinders without taking any risks, last time I let like 10 of them walk into a field of cannon traps, and then send in a cleaning crew of orcs).

So currently you can choose to have no challenge and just work around anything dangerous untill you find gold.
This concludes for me personally:

1) You need enemies that can tunnel themselves, with conditions (for example if they find out there is an open area 1 or 2 blocks away.
2) Enemies need to drop stuff, we wants lootz!
3) The bodies can be grinded or material obtained from it (e. Impanzee meat for creatures, Impanzee eyeballs needed for possession spell, etc...)
4) Instead of looking at DK(2) all the time, please take a look at a 10 times better game, called: Evil Genius, where torture and imprisoning was vital for research purposes and keeping your minions happy was all that was necessary, not to mention base defence and security, and also stronger enemies over time.
5) I get that knights can't tunnel, but maybe a good idea to implent something like: 'If 5 or more knights are near each other in a stairwell, because they are trapped or anything, just send another creature down with tunnel capacities etc.
6) Knights coming from the stairwell should be higher levels over time.
7) More variety (maybe small swarms of simple soldiers in combination with Knights) coming from the overworld.
8) Rebellious creatures, (e. Where is my bed? And there is no food 'starts fighting with other creatures, actually wounding, killing or getting killed) There is currently no pressure in building your base effectively.
9) I think giving the items values (gold, 100 etc) is indeed a good idea... I end up with flour all over my storage rooms, a way to dispose of that with an actual profit would be awesome, however this idea is extremely 'grindish' and the main problem: "Why work your ass of, trying to find Gold, when 10 cheap flour does the same thing, it makes valuables invaluable and visa versa.
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Good points there Smile

1. I will add enemies that can dig, I am thinking about having the portals so that they can generate enemies when the player comes close enough, these enemies could contain some diggers as well, maybe I could reintroduce the dark dwarfs for this task Smile

2. Enemies will be created with weapons and armours, when they die they will drop the equipment and the player can then learn how to craft the same equipment or feed it to the dark mother to create shards.

3. The butchers table we have got going will probably do this, at least get bones from the enemies. When a enemy gets imprisoned the player will have the option to butcher him or feed him to the dark mother, the torture chamber option will be introduced later. When a enemy dies I could make a un-dead copy of him that requires no food or rest, but will be much weaker than the original. The last one is discussable, but that is one of the ideas that pops into my head atm, I know that we have discussed it here at the forum before.

4. Sounds interesting, I will check it out. On the first glance I don't think the graphic style would fit Dwelvers, but the gameplay could definitely inspire too some new ideas.

5. Answered in (1) Smile

6. They will when the surface world gets playable.

7. Working on it Smile

8. If the creatures get no rest they will turn side at the moment, but it is very hard to notice for the player as there currently are no message system, all the creatures does is switch side, do a little fighting and then dies without the player noticing, this will get improved a lot with the next version.

9. The idea here is that different items will make different type of shards, you can never get the same shard type from gold and flour. But there is items like rock and gold (that are a limited resource) that will create the same shard type, the only thing here is that it will be more beneficial for the player to go look for gold because it will be so much more worth than rocks.

Once again, great suggestions, really made me think Smile
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Yeah, those are definitely good suggestions.

Orifiael Wrote:7) More variety (maybe small swarms of simple soldiers in combination with Knights) coming from the overworld.

Interesting that you mention it, I posted something very similar a few months back in the suggestions forum: Creature - Soldier
and: Creature - Goblin

plus quite a few more, some posted by me, others posted by other members. Take a look in there, I'm sure you'll see some interesting stuff, some of which will make it into the game in some form or other. Wink

@Mellow Tonin: I think you have a good idea about the shards, IMO they should not look crafted in any way. Irregular shapes should accomplish this in a way that's easily scalable (in terms of size of the pics)

@BurningPet: I like your idea, but the colours do need more contrast, otherwise it's easy to confuse one shard type for another.
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Some random thoughts on non-traditional creature production. The general idea is to have special flavour imps that can't be "bought" but have to be put through some special situations to appear instead.


Trap an imp inside a punching pig, tell orcs to train with said pig for some time - out comes a Tough Imp. He'll defend himself from attacks if there are no Orcs around to fight for him, although he'll sometimes break stuff out of spite, like storage tables/shelves, grinders, orc beds, etc. Optional: From time to time, he'll hit some of his fellow imps to give them a temporary speed boost, hurting them slightly, obviously.

Leave an imp stranded on a 1 by 1 pit/cell until he passes out. Carry him to a bed - once he recovers, he'll become a Crazimp. He'll work twice as fast most of the time, only he'll sometimes do stuff he wasn't asked for, like digging a wall or raising a new one in random places.

Trap an imp outside the dark mothers reach for a while. Once he's neglected for some time, he goes AWOL. He no longer takes jobs from the job queue, he just wonders around exploring. You can still see what he sees, and enemy creatures don't attack him, but he'll be, for all purposes, no longer under your command.
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This is very imaginative! I wouldn't mind seeing a tough Imp that maybe even sometimes picks on the weaker Imps.
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